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Golf R Lease Speical- So Soon!

C

C4L

Banned
Dybz said:
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That was me being nice to you and just dropping it because we won't know the reality of it for 10 years from now.

Please pick up a business book or a book on manufacturing or supply/chain management or whatever and learn the difference between 'depreciable life' and 'residual value'.

They are not the same.
 
Dybz

Dybz

Banned
C4L said:
That was me being nice to you and just dropping it because we won't know the reality of it for 10 years from now.

Please pick up a business book or a book on manufacturing or supply/chain management or whatever and learn the difference between 'depreciable life' and 'residual value'.

They are not the same.
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oh really... how about i go home and pick up my 20+ books i used to obtain my industrial engineering degree... i never said they are the same, but your math implied they were. you said the depreciable life was 10 years, then assumed that meant that the value of the R went down $3500/year arriving at a final cost of $292/month.

also, how about i go talk to the finance guys i work with all the time in local manufacturing companies to price new projects/machines?

:wub:
 
C

C4L

Banned
Dybz said:
oh really... how about i go home and pick up my 20+ books i used during my industrial engineering degree...
Click to expand...

So engineering and business are the same to you?

If I need you to build me a bridge from Detroit to Windsor, I will give you a call. Until then I will consult my own finance and business books from my degree in business or even just co-workers in the industry.

I didn't create the concept of depreciable life. It is a pretty standard idea that is really used in theory only when trying to evaluate a certain piece of equipments utility and project an analysis of its cost:benefit.

I look at my finances like a business and my car like a piece of equipment.
 
Dybz

Dybz

Banned
C4L said:
So engineering and business are the same to you?

If I need you to build me a bridge from Detroit to Windsor, I will give you a call. Until then I will consult my own finance and business books from my degree in business or even just co-workers in the industry.
Click to expand...

you dont even know what an industrial engineer does... go pick up a book yourself, or learn to use google. we're the finance/supply chain/logistics guys of the engineering world.

have i proven my epeen bigger yet? lets set up a poll thread.
 
C

C4L

Banned
Dybz said:
you dont even know what an industrial engineer does... go pick up a book yourself, or learn to use google. we're the finance/supply chain/logistics guys of the engineering world.

have i proven my epeen bigger yet? lets set up a poll thread.
Click to expand...

Fairly common mistake on my part.


Here is a source;

While the term originally applied to manufacturing, the use of "industrial" in "industrial engineering" can be somewhat misleading, since it has grown to encompass any methodical or quantitative approach to optimizing how a process, system, or organization operates. Some engineering universities and educational agencies around the world have changed the term "industrial" to the broader term "production", leading to the typical extensions noted above. In fact, the primary U.S. professional organization for Industrial Engineers, the Institute of Industrial Engineers (IIE) has been considering changing its name to something broader (such as the Institute of Industrial & Systems Engineers), although the latest vote among membership deemed this unnecessary for the time being.

- - - - - -

So if you understand the ideas of depreciable life then why are attacking me for being the messenger in this case??
 
Dybz

Dybz

Banned
C4L said:
Fairly common mistake on my part.


Here is a source;

While the term originally applied to manufacturing, the use of "industrial" in "industrial engineering" can be somewhat misleading, since it has grown to encompass any methodical or quantitative approach to optimizing how a process, system, or organization operates. Some engineering universities and educational agencies around the world have changed the term "industrial" to the broader term "production", leading to the typical extensions noted above. In fact, the primary U.S. professional organization for Industrial Engineers, the Institute of Industrial Engineers (IIE) has been considering changing its name to something broader (such as the Institute of Industrial & Systems Engineers), although the latest vote among membership deemed this unnecessary for the time being.

- - - - - -

So if you understand the ideas of depreciable life then why are attacking me for being the messenger in this case??
Click to expand...

because of how you claimed that the depreciable life is the same as losing $292/month. it's not the same. maybe it was a miswording on your part, either way... not the same.
 
C

C4L

Banned
Dybz said:
because of how you claimed that the depreciable life is the same as losing $292/month. it's not the same. maybe it was a miswording on your part, either way... not the same.
Click to expand...

The idea of deprecialbe life is that it has no useable value at the end, whatever time period that may be. It really has more to do with the machines ability to properly function, right? Not necessarily its actual value at that time?

In any event, the car will depreciate, and you will lose money in the form of lost equity when this happens on a car you own.

What we CAN estimate is that after 5 years the car could (estimated) lose 55% of its value in that time. That is 11%/year over the first 5 years. That is far out as we can actually have a good handle on.

After that there is no way to tell how quickly it may depreciate. The car will always be worth something but mathematically it, on average, has a depreciable life of 10 years.

When you lease, you know exactly what this number is from day one. NO RISK.
 
C

C4L

Banned
JhnR said:
:lol:
Click to expand...

Please read.

The 'special' did not end. It actually went from $469/mo to $499/mo for the exact same car under the exact same assumptions.
http://web.vw.com/templates/Service?serviceName=vwoffers

And in any event, this is good stuff for people to know. Remove the numbers from the discussion and you could probably come up with a good buy vs. lease cost calculator/template.

I think at least one great point to take from all this is that it varies case by case. There are TONS of people out there who are completely against leasing all the time. Those are the people who don't know enough about it.

I, through personal experience of myself and others, have found that generally speaking, with a fair priced lease and under normal conditions, that if you plan on keep the car for 3-5 years, leasing is more financial advantageous. If you keep your cars for 5+ years, consider buying.

That is my general rule of thumb (i.e not an absolute) and more often than not, it works out well.
 
Dybz

Dybz

Banned
C4L said:
The idea of deprecialbe life is that it has no useable value at the end, whatever time period that may be. It really has more to do with the machines ability to properly function, right? Not necessarily its actual value at that time?

In any event, the car will depreciate, and you will lose money in the form of lost equity when this happens on a car you own.

What we CAN estimate is that after 5 years the car could (estimated) lose 55% of its value in that time. That is 11%/year over the first 5 years. That is far out as we can actually have a good handle on.

After that there is no way to tell how quickly it may depreciate. The car will always be worth something but mathematically it, on average, has a depreciable life of 10 years.

When you lease, you know exactly what this number is from day one. NO RISK.
Click to expand...

but that's what i was trying to say... you can compare the MKIV R32 to the MKVI Golf R as they are similar "machines" and it will have value (~50%) even at 8 years (so we can assume that 2 more years won't bring that value to $0). using similar "machines" to compare this rather than using industry standards is better as you have a more direct comparison.

yes, you do have less risk with the lease, but we have enough data to justify using MKIV R values.
 
C

C4L

Banned
Dybz said:
but that's what i was trying to say... you can compare the MKIV R32 to the MKVI Golf R as they are similar "machines" and it will have value (~50%) even at 8 years (so we can assume that 2 more years won't bring that value to $0). using similar "machines" to compare this rather than using industry standards is better as you have a more direct comparison.

yes, you do have less risk with the lease, but we have enough data to justify using MKIV R values.
Click to expand...

I agree. I suppose the idea of depreciable life is far less important or less of a factor on cars than it is on machines for widgets. Yes?

And to finish the topic of discussion, if the Golf R has such a high residual than couldn't an argument be made for the best scenario being to lease the car now and then buy at lease-end. Thus taking advantage of the underestimated residual on VW's part?

You could still keep the car for 5 years by leasing for 3 and keeping payments, taxes, and interest low, and then finance for 3 years at the end of the lease on the remaining pre-contracted value (which we are sure is low) with a lower payment, taxes, and interest at that point and then sell it after 5 years with a guaranteed profit of some sort by having only 1 year remaining on a 3 year note at 57% MSRP worth of equity and lowest possible costs for the duration of the 5 years.

Kind of the best of both??

Purchase advantage of having equity and no payments (if desired)
Lease advantage of lower payments, less interest, and less taxes
And you could negotiate the deal on both fronts too...
 
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