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Yet Another Front Speaker Upgrade

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chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
Hello,

Okay, the standard stereo in my new Golf R 4 door (no dynaudio or nav) sucks. Which is a real disappointment after the non-Typhoon stereo in my 03 Passat, which (don't laugh) I think is one of the best sounding factory audio setups I've heard.

I want to start simple, so I'm upgrading the front component speakers. I bought a pair of Infinity kappa 60.9cs for cheap ($127) from an Amazon partner. I thought I saw some endorsements for these in VW forums and I know they benefit from low impedance to hopefully draw a little more power from the stock HU without blowing it up.

I've found the tutorial on taking apart the front door panels. I realize I'm going to need to drill out the rivets that hold in the stock mid-bass speakers (I'll probably use the cutting wheel on a dremel tool) and I've located these (http://www.car-speaker-adapters.com/items.php?id=SAK023) speaker adapters. But I still have a few questions. If it motivates you to answer, I promise to take pictures and document the entire procedure.

1. After I take out the original mid-bass speakers and the rivets that held them in, how do I fasten the speaker adapter and new speaker to the door?

2. Is it worth the time and money to install that sound-deadening film (Dynamat)?

3. As I understand it, there is no crossover per se in the stock unit, so I just take the pair of wires running from the HU to the stock mid-bass (Brown/red stripe and brown/black stripe on the left, brown/green and brown/blue on the right) and run those to my crossovers and then of course run the two pairs from the crossover to the mid-bass and the tweeter. Correct? What's the best way to hold the wires in place on these runs?

4. Suggestions for where to mount the crossovers? There's lots of room in the cubby hole, but then I'd have to drill a hole to pass the wires through.

5. I know you really can't know without seeing it, but how likely is it that I'll be able to jury-rig a mount of the Infinity tweeters into the stock "wing" unit?

Anything I'm missing here? What's the consensus on the Infinity's?

I know that common wisdom is that you need a sub for decent audio, but as mentioned previously, i *love* the stereo in my Passat and it has no sub. I know I risk future re-work by being too lazy to add an amp at this point, but honestly, if I go slowly and don't f up the install, $130 cost keeps my expectations low.

Oh, is there a convenient source for the plastic panel fasteners in case I should f up?

Thanks for any help, and yes, I will do a photo-essay of the entire process (with references to existing resources like the article concerning the front door panel disassembly).

I'll introduce myself in the R forum as soon as my vanity plate shows up and I can take a proper picture.
 
nvturbo

nvturbo

Go Kart Champion
1. Mark and drill new holes for the speaker adapter. You can also use "self-tapping" screws if you prefer.

2. It wouldn't hurt to do so. Sound-deadening material lessens your chances of rattles/vibrations.

3. Yes, that's correct. The input wires connect to the input of the crossovers. You can either strap the wires to doors using "one-hole" plastic straps or aluminum tape (the ones HVAC mechanics use to wrap A/C ducts)

4. Most folks mount the crossovers in the doors....towards the edge of the door (opposite end of the midbass hole)

5. You can use clear silicone to mount and secure the new tweeters in the stock tweeter location.
 
C

chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
nvturbo said:
1. Mark and drill new holes for the speaker adapter. You can also use "self-tapping" screws if you prefer.

2. It wouldn't hurt to do so. Sound-deadening material lessens your chances of rattles/vibrations.

3. Yes, that's correct. The input wires connect to the input of the crossovers. You can either strap the wires to doors using "one-hole" plastic straps or aluminum tape (the ones HVAC mechanics use to wrap A/C ducts)

4. Most folks mount the crossovers in the doors....towards the edge of the door (opposite end of the midbass hole)

5. You can use clear silicone to mount and secure the new tweeters in the stock tweeter location.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and if anyone else has gotchas or tricks, please chime in.
 
N

nikbrewer

Go Kart Champion
i will say, alot of peopl ehave seen an improvement adding a sub. This will allow you to reduce the amount of bass the doors produce, allowing them to distort less. in my MKV, once i added a sub, it was a great improvement. Also, powering the stock speakers seems to help as well
 
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chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
Thanks for all the info. I'll wait on the sub. As I said, I've been very happy with the factory stereo in my Passat for ten years, without a sub.

I have to admit that I haven't had much experience with high end car audio, but mostly what I've heard sounds very unnatural. The kind of sound that appeals to people who like JBL speakers.

And another stupid question: Is it at all feasible to cut a hole out of the stock door panel in order to use the grill panels from the new speakers? The look would be good imho but could see how it would just rattle to shit. Also wondering similarly about the tweeter wings. I know it depends on the particular replacement speakers, but I'd rather not hide them behind that crappy plastic.
 
Johnny Two Tone

Johnny Two Tone

Ready to race!
chanthing said:
Thanks for all the info. I'll wait on the sub. As I said, I've been very happy with the factory stereo in my Passat for ten years, without a sub.

I have to admit that I haven't had much experience with high end car audio, but mostly what I've heard sounds very unnatural. The kind of sound that appeals to people who like JBL speakers.

And another stupid question: Is it at all feasible to cut a hole out of the stock door panel in order to use the grill panels from the new speakers? The look would be good imho but could see how it would just rattle to shit. Also wondering similarly about the tweeter wings. I know it depends on the particular replacement speakers, but I'd rather not hide them behind that crappy plastic.
Click to expand...

I would seriously think twice about cutting into a door card. Door cards, even on cheap vehicles, can cost hundreds to replace (each) if you cut into them and then decide you didn't like how it turned out. It also greatly reduces resale value. Plus, the grills that came with your speakers doesn't actually add anything to the sound quality, or anything of that matter.

The only real time it's good to alter OEM door cards is when you have the know-how to do full on fiberglass modifications to essentially create a new, custom door card.
 
Johnny Two Tone

Johnny Two Tone

Ready to race!
Personally, I think that the best way to mount new woofers is to drill out the rivets and then BOLT (ie. nut and bolt) an MDF ring on to the hole. You're almost certainly going to need a spacer ring to mount new speakers in the front doors anyway (since the front doors have bracket piece behind the hole that prevents pretty much anything other than a slim design woofer to fit without a spacer), and bolting a wooden spacer in will make it so that you can then screw your speaker down onto the spacer without having to worry about screw hole alignment. It also makes it so that the holes in the door mount that are left behind when you remove the rivets can be reused as the holes that the bolts will go through.

Just be sure to use lock-tight on the bolts to ensure that the nuts don't vibrate loose.

The rear door woofer holes are deep enough to accept any depth of speaker so just get 1/2" MDF spacers, or even 1/4" if such a size exists). Up front, though, you will need 1" spacers to accommodate 2.8" deep speakers, or 1/2" spacers for slim line style woofers (eg. CDT Audio ES-6iM).

Oh, I just used hot-glue to mount new tweeters in the stock locations. Hot glue is super easy to use, sets instantly (unlike greasy, nasty silicone) and can be removed almost as easily as silicone.
 
C

chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
Johnny Two Tone said:
I would seriously think twice about cutting into a door card. Door cards, even on cheap vehicles, can cost hundreds to replace (each) if you cut into them and then decide you didn't like how it turned out. It also greatly reduces resale value. Plus, the grills that came with your speakers doesn't actually add anything to the sound quality, or anything of that matter.

The only real time it's good to alter OEM door cards is when you have the know-how to do full on fiberglass modifications to essentially create a new, custom door card.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I kind of figured that. Thanks for the sanity check.
 
D

doctorzaius

New member
chanthing said:
I've found the tutorial on taking apart the front door panels. I realize I'm going to need to drill out the rivets that hold in the stock mid-bass speakers (I'll probably use the cutting wheel on a dremel tool) and I've located these (http://www.car-speaker-adapters.com/items.php?id=SAK023) speaker adapters. But I still have a few questions. If it motivates you to answer, I promise to take pictures and document the entire procedure.
Click to expand...

I'm new here too and doing something similar but with Boston Acoustics Pro60SE. Can you provide the link to the tutorial mentioned above? Thanks a million.
 
C

chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
doctorzaius said:
I'm new here too and doing something similar but with Boston Acoustics Pro60SE. Can you provide the link to the tutorial mentioned above? Thanks a million.
Click to expand...

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5095

Also, if you google around for info on the Focal system built specifically for Golf MkVIs, you will encounter photos and videos showing the same basic procedure.

BTW, after finding a few more interesting build threads, I am strongly considering building custom pods, for at least the tweeters (see http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83251). Mid-bass I'm not sure about yet.

Keeping in mind that I'm just brainstorming here, what would you think about cutting out the entire area of the door card that conceals the speaker (trapezoid shape) and then fitting some sort or rigid frame holding speaker grill fabric? Probably would be way too noisy and still look crappy.But some kind of "frame", whether fabric or rigid, to fill that space, has potential, imho.

The main problem I see with cutting a hole in the card is that a round hole in the midst of all those horizontal lines and oddly shaped section of the door card just looks silly and haphazard.

Anybody got links to speaker pod builds for the mk6 front door speakers?

-- Thing
 
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C

chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
So after reading around on here and day-dreaming, I'm thinking I may go beyond Phase 1, which was just simple replacement of my front components with the Infinity Kappa 609.cs. I've pretty much singled out a five channel class D amp (I'd want to put it under the hatch floor along with my stealth sub. :)

Now, first a question related to Phase 1: Are the tweeter wings from the Mk4 and Mk5 compatible with the Mk6? Cause if they were, I could get easily find some spares to work from and get started on my tweeter pod without having to run without them in the meantime.

I'd need either a Clean Sweep or an LC6i or similar as I moved on to using the amp, correct? Do those need 12v power?

We'll see how it goes after I get my speaker mounts and can find out just how bad the system sounds with only getting new speakers.
 
C

chanthing

Passed Driver's Ed
Okay, just looking for more daydream fodder as well as a way to reduce the project cost slightly.

Let's imagine I decide that just putting new speaker components in the front is inadequate, although I decide the speakers themselves are okay. The dominant philosphy I've noticed is that the back seat gets little attention. After all, the owner doesn't sit there. So what if I move the Infinity Kappa's (chosen for low impedance and high sensitivity) into the rear door positions and drove them with the stock HU (signals branched to a line level adaptor / dsp of some sort and then on to amp for the front component speakers and sub (maybe then, maybe later, but sometime). Would it be worth the cost savings of going from a 5 channel amp to a 3 amp and I suppose slightly simpler setup?

Ideally you want to have the same component speakers in the back seat as you have in the front. Is not doing this going to have practical or performance implications?

This is fun; thanks to everyone here who has shared their time and knowledge. I've always been something of a low profile audiophile. I owned (still do) a satellite / subwoofer speaker system for my home stereo in 1979. Musical taste is eclectic: classic rock (stones and Deep Purple, not Stryper and Motorhead), new new wave, funk, progressive rock, Electronica, Grateful Dead, etc.

But having just bought the car, the potential expense is daunting, especially when I could've been happy with a factory system with the same sound quality found in the one in the ten year old model that came from the same manufacturer as the new one.

-- Thing
 
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