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-   -   Carbon Buildup 101 (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68616)

Bender 11-12-2013 11:57 AM

Carbon Buildup 101
 
As more and more cars start to flirt with higher mileage, a higher number of members are encountering carbon buildup. Though carbon buildup is nothing new and older members are well versed in it, it may be of interest to newer members and those buying used vehicles with mileage in the mid 5 figures and beyond.

So what is carbon buildup?

Carbon buildup is just what it sounds like. It is a buildup of carbon material on the top of your intake valves (between).

What causes carbon buildup?

To understand what causes carbon buildup, you first need to understand how our engines work. At its most basic, an engine burns two things: oxygen and fuel. In our case that fuel can either be gasoline or diesel. So, an appropriate mixture of fuel and oxygen are needed in the combustion chamber to explode when the spark plug ignites. In the old days, oxygen and fuel were mixed in the carburetor and passed to the engine over the intake valve. In more recent times, a fuel injector sprayed a fine mist of fuel into the intake port. From there the air/fuel mixture passed over the intake valve into the combustion chamber. This was called port injection (you still see this advertised on older GM cars). Port injection was a huge leap forward in terms of both power and fuel economy. You could much more finely control the mixture, and dynamically control the mixture based on what the various sensors were communicating to the ECU. Though they were very different, both had something in common - fuel passed over the intake valves. This is important and we will come back to that point later.

A relatively recent way to mix fuel and air is called direct injection. Just as port injection is exactly what it sounds like (injection of fuel into the intake port), direct injection is just what it sounds like. It is the injection of fuel DIRECTLY into the combustion chamber. Just like port injection was a step up in both power and efficiency, direct injection is even a bigger leap forward. Both the GTI and the TDI are direct injected. As fuel is injected DIRECTLY into the combustion chamber, it does not pass over the intake valves.

Ok Bender, hurry it up man...

Sorry, I am getting to it, but this is all important for you to be aware of if you want a comprehensive view of the issue. So, now you know the various options for how fuel and air get into the intake chamber, but you still don't know where the carbon comes from. Once the air and fuel mix and are combusted, there is extreme high pressure in the combustion chamber, forcing the piston to move. Most of the exhaust gases go out through the exhaust valve, but some tiny amounts of exhaust (which contains burnt and unburnt carbons) were actually forced past the piston and piston seals into the crankcase. This is called blow-by. This builds up pressure in the crankcase that must be relieved. Back in the early 20th century the would simply vent the crankcase right to the atmosphere. Because this was terrible for the environment and resulted in oil buildup... everywhere... GM invented the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system (side note - GM was such a believer in PCV tech they gave it away to other manufactures FOR FREE). The PCV recirculates these crankcase gases into the intake manifold, where they mix with incoming air for re-combustion. This makes lots of sense as it has minimal impact on performance and it results in huge environmental improvements.

So the PCV takes your blow-by gases out of the crankcase and dumps them back into the intake manifold. Back in the old days, this was no big deal. They would be mixed with fuel and off they would go to do it all over again. Now, since the fuel never enters the intake port, they don't mix with fuel. Instead, they start to congregate, and settle, and build up. This is the source of carbon buildup.

Makes sense. What if I used a catch can rather than a PCV?

For a long time, it was generally accepted that catch cans were the solution by many (myself included) on this board. Long term testing proved they had no impact on carbon buildup.

What can I do?

When applying for its patents on direct injection, Audi noted the potential issue and recommended keeping the engine above 3000 rpms, for over 20 minutes, on a regular basis (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1338704). I would say that I am the perfect test case for this and can confirm that it works. I did need carbon cleaning, but it was not until 91,000 miles, when many are facing it at 50,000. Drive the car hard, use good oil and good fuel (note, neither has been proved to have an impact, but it won't hurt), and don't worry about it. Its a major maintenance item, but not one to fear.

Calvinball 11-12-2013 12:00 PM

Figures a robot would understand this stuff.

Bender 11-12-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvinball (Post 1456042)
Figures a robot would understand this stuff.

And i don't even run on carbon based fuel! I run on alcohol!

One thing I forgot to mention was Water/Meth injection. Water/Meth injection will absolutely slow/stop formation of carbon as it introduces a liquid solvent into the intake port. What it cannot do is reverse it.

ClapperHighs 11-12-2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 1456066)
And i don't even run on carbon based fuel! I run on alcohol!

One thing I forgot to mention was Water/Meth injection. Water/Meth injection will absolutely slow/stop formation of carbon as it introduces a liquid solvent into the intake port. What it cannot do is reverse it.

:lol:

Very easy to understand. Well written. I really want to take a look at my valves... I'm curious to see how they look. Just rolled over 30k miles. But I've had meth on my car since 8500 miles. And I push the car every day.

Bender 11-12-2013 12:33 PM

Thanks! :) I hope it is helpful to anyone that has questions about it.

I would venture to say yours are perfect, but it would be neat to see them!

Calvinball 11-12-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 1456066)
And i don't even run on carbon based fuel! I run on alcohol!

One thing I forgot to mention was Water/Meth injection. Water/Meth injection will absolutely slow/stop formation of carbon as it introduces a liquid solvent into the intake port. What it cannot do is reverse it.

Oh you just forgot that eh?

That's what happens when you get a VW noob to proofread your sticky.

smrtypants44 11-12-2013 01:03 PM

I think you need to add another section "What signs to look for when carbon buildup is affecting your cars performance"

Bender 11-12-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smrtypants44 (Post 1456171)
I think you need to add another section "What signs to look for when carbon buildup is affecting your cars performance"

This is not really a whole section. You will get a cold start misfire when bad enough. You MAY sense a performance loss prior to that. I don't emphasize this as I don't want people pulling off manifolds just because they think they are down on power or MPG.

Jerseynoob 11-12-2013 01:29 PM

I had a carbon cleaning at 75k miles on my '10 Jetta this past summer, Tech said it was the easiest cleaning he's done cause it was 'moist'. But when I pulled out of the lot onto the street I didn't feel any difference from pre-cleaning.

I change my oil every 5k
Use Sunoco/Shell/Mobil/Citgo hi test all the time
Majority of driving is highway, where I hover about the 3k rpm mark.

So what does this mean? Got me............

Coolicarboy 11-12-2013 02:02 PM

Awesome thread, Bender!

DaveSTR 11-12-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolicarboy (Post 1456275)
Awesome thread, Bender!

Very much so! Thank you Bender.

kern417 11-12-2013 03:08 PM

that may be why my valves weren't that bad at 80k. I mean they were bad, but I expected much much worse for that high of mileage.

I usually cruise on the highway at 80mph so 3k+rpms is regular for me. Or I guess other folks could just cruise in 5th gear to keep the rpms up.

Also people with port injection do still get some carbon buildup, it just takes way longer. right?

Bender 11-12-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kern417 (Post 1456366)
I usually cruise on the highway at 80mph so 3k+rpms is regular for me. Or I guess other folks could just cruise in 5th gear to keep the rpms up.

Absolutely 70 mph in 5th would be a great solution.

Quote:

Also people with port injection do still get some carbon buildup, it just takes way longer. right?
I really can't answer that. My gut tells me the effective result would be none for the average life of ownership.

svickstc 11-12-2013 03:26 PM

Bender did Ken shoot the pics of the new FSI motor done (one of the tech's cars) way worse than yours....eeek


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