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-   -   Direct Ozone Reduction Catalyst Temperature Sensor///// Radiator Identification Senso (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82714)

vwgti2.0t 08-22-2014 08:30 AM

Direct Ozone Reduction Catalyst Temperature Sensor///// Radiator Identification Senso
 
I copied my post over from THIS this thread to maybe combine information and solve this issue. This relates to CBFA or California Emissions cars only. Everyone with a CCTA....I currently hate you. :yikes:

I installed my intercooler back in 2011, and didn't even take notice of this sensor. I would get the code about twice per summer. Never in the winter. Around February I hit some wood on the road and ended up replacing a bunch of parts in the front end (core support, condensor, etc.). I figured I'd check this out while I was in there, and it was TIGHT. At the time I really didn't worry about it as I only got the code about twice a summer.

Well, now I'm getting it quite often. The light really didn't bother me at first. I would just clear it when it came on, but waiting 2 days for the car to adapt every time I clear the codes sucks, and then the CEL comes back on after a week or two. So then I was just leaving it on...well then it clears itself after a few days and goes through adaptation again. I like my car running correctly in closed loop when it's supposed to, and by resetting readyness every week that doesn't happen.

Never had a problem with performance with this until yesterday. I noticed I was making 2-3psi less than usual. Came home, did a pressure test and couldn't find anything, I was stumped. This morning I was driving to work and same thing, lower boost than usual. Then it hit me to check the codes. I had a pending P2568, but no CEL lit. I cleared the codes (this is all while driving BTW), and BOOM, full boost again.

Long story short, I should have spaced it when I had the chance...I didn't. Clearly something has worn by it being in constant contact with the intercooler for 3 years. There is no way in hell I'm paying $250 for a new radiator, when it works just fine and the problem is because of a stupid emissions sensor.

So do we have options? Code it out in the tune (hello APR!)? Can we do the resistor trick like we used to in the 1.8t days? Buy the sensor seperately?

I've looked for the sensor alone, and haven't found anything. I havn't dug deep into it yet, but I'd like to find some diagrams and maybe see what the sensor is supposed to see and what the ECU wants to see. It's only a 2 wire sensor, so it shouldn't really be overly difficult to trick it.

Would anyone be willing to measure some values with a volt/ohm meter from there correctly working sensor? The plug is in clear view under the car.

Anyone have any schmatics on the sensor?

Is there anyway to log what values this is seeing with vagcom?

Any other thoughts suggestions?

Sorry for the book...

XGC75 08-22-2014 09:08 AM

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attach...4&d=1366499869

vwgti2.0t 08-22-2014 09:10 AM

Thanks! I know what the sensor is, and where it's located, and where the wiring goes. Just trying to find a way to really either get around it by using resistors or buy the sensor seperately.

XGC75 08-22-2014 09:11 AM

Could also be a capacitive circuit. It's actually more economical to monitor a frequency response than a voltage from a controls perspective. So don't let your DMM fool you.

vwgti2.0t 08-22-2014 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XGC75 (Post 1918237)
Could also be a capacitive circuit. It's actually more economical to monitor a frequency response than a voltage from a controls perspective. So don't let your DMM fool you.

I guess it could be. My thoughts on it are:

-From the other thread, the guy tried to take it out of the radiator and it threw the code
-I'm not sure how it actually goes into the radiator, but since it threw the code with it out I'm assuming it makes contact with the fins
-Something contacting the fins, and air passing over the radiator would change resistance that the ECU is seeing from the sensor
-Find that resistance, and put the correct sized resistor in the plug going to the ECU to make it see what it wants??

My other thoughts are, the sensor probably isn't reading stuff all the time. I usually seem to get it shortly after starting the car up, so it must do a preliminary check when you start the car. What I don't know, is what it's checking for, what it's looking for, and how it's measuring anything when your car usually isn't immediately moving (no air over rad) after starting the car up.

vwgti2.0t 08-22-2014 10:12 AM

Just found this...good pictorial of how it's installed. I wonder if the adhesive is electrical or just a glue??

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswag...ine_code_cbfa/

vwgti2.0t 08-22-2014 10:17 AM

US Patent on the sensor...

http://www.google.com/patents/US20050077026

ViRtUaLheretic 08-22-2014 06:33 PM

Ive never seen one of these on a MKV TSI car, I wonder if this is a MKVI only thing.
I have a CBFA but I havent replaced my IC yet, when I do ill check.

skully 08-22-2014 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic (Post 1919514)
Ive never seen one of these on a MKV TSI car, I wonder if this is a MKVI only thing.
I have a CBFA but I havent replaced my IC yet, when I do ill check.

2011 and up CBFA engines

2013R 08-22-2014 06:52 PM

Radiator Identification

Sensor G611

Requirements

The purpose of Radiator Identification Sensor G611 is to
prevent:

– PremAir® radiator from being removed and replaced
with a non-PremAir® radiator

– G611 from being removed for the purpose of
reproducing the electronics or software

– G611 from being extensively cut out of the radiator
and installed “elsewhere”

The requirements relating to Radiator Identification
Sensor G611 are met as follows.

To check for the presence of the radiator, pre-determined
distinguishing features (IDs) are stored in the ECM and in
G611, and exchanged electronically.

Information is exchanged via LIN bus according to
the master-slave principle. This means that Radiator
Identification Sensor G611 is interrogated by the ECM.
The IDs are transmitted in an encrypted form after the
engine is started. If the codes no longer match (for
example, due to tampering), a fault will be indicated.

Integrated Temperature Sensor

A temperature sensor (NTC, Negative Temperature
Coefficient) measures the temperature at the point of
installation. This temperature is compared in the ECM
with the temperature from Engine Coolant Temperature
Sensor G62. The measured temperatures are transmitted
to the ECM via LIN bus. In the ECM, the values are
compared with a characteristic map and evaluated.
The temperature sensor is located in a specially shaped
spigot on the sensor housing. During assembly, the
sensor is bonded directly to a mounting base on the
radiator.

The temperature sensor is made of cast polyurethane
resin and is non-removable once attached. If, however, an
attempt is made to remove the temperature sensor, the
sensor spigot will break away from the housing causing
it to become irreparably damaged, both electrically and
mechanically.

This is a safeguard to ensure that all attempts at
tampering will be detected. In the event of misuse,
Malfunction Indicator Light K83 will be activated. In this
case, both the radiator and Radiator Identification Sensor
G611 must be replaced.

http://vwts.ru/engine/caeb/pps_92290..._w_acs_eng.pdf

Utah Beast Mode 08-26-2014 10:55 AM

I have a 2014 MK6 GTI with the CBFA engine. A few weeks ago I installed the SPM Intercooler and I couldn't get it to sit flush because of this stupid sensor which is only held on by clips. I thought it was just an Air Temp Sensor and relocated it to the front of my AC condenser. I had not clue about this and after researching the issue I found more info. Like on the Unitronic website you'll see their intercooler is compatible with the Ozone sensor.

Now I have that stupid Direct Ozone CEL and I cleared it with Vagcom but it eventually came back. I'm thinking there has to be some way to disable the sensor all together because if I bought an aftermarket high performance radiator it wouldn't have the sensor and the CEL would come on, so yeah. I need to clear/disable this code? Anyone out there can provide some help?

Thanks,

vwgti2.0t 08-26-2014 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic (Post 1919514)
Ive never seen one of these on a MKV TSI car, I wonder if this is a MKVI only thing.
I have a CBFA but I havent replaced my IC yet, when I do ill check.

What skully said below. Only CBFA, and apparently 2011 up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skully (Post 1919521)
2011 and up CBFA engines

Fix my shit please Dave.. :wub:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2013R (Post 1919539)

Thanks for the info Plac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utah Beast Mode (Post 1924048)
I have a 2014 MK6 GTI with the CBFA engine. A few weeks ago I installed the SPM Intercooler and I couldn't get it to sit flush because of this stupid sensor which is only held on by clips. I thought it was just an Air Temp Sensor and relocated it to the front of my AC condenser. I had not clue about this and after researching the issue I found more info. Like on the Unitronic website you'll see their intercooler is compatible with the Ozone sensor.

Now I have that stupid Direct Ozone CEL and I cleared it with Vagcom but it eventually came back. I'm thinking there has to be some way to disable the sensor all together because if I bought an aftermarket high performance radiator it wouldn't have the sensor and the CEL would come on, so yeah. I need to clear/disable this code? Anyone out there can provide some help?

Thanks,

The other thread posted in the first post the guy did the same thing. He was able to just take everything back apart and put the sensor back where it was with no problems.

I put my intercooler in back in 2011 and never had any issues, and it wasn't even spaced. I must have just had it jammed in there and didn't even notice. Starting about two years ago I would get the code once or twice per summer. I would clear it and it would usually never come back. I never once got it in the winter. Summer time rolled around this year and I got the code, cleared it and kept coming back every 2 weeks or so...so much more regularly.

Last Friday I put 5 washers at each mounting point to space the radiator back a little bit. I've only driven it 100 miles since then, but I don't have any soft codes or anything yet (which I would normaly see with vagcom pretty quickly, it would just take a while for the actual CEL to illuminate).

I'm probably not out of the clear yet, but I'm hoping I am. Who knows. All I know is I'm not buying a radiator. I'll by $100 worth of resistors to try and fool it before I buy a radiator becuase of an emissions sensor.

Utah Beast Mode 08-26-2014 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *****2.0t (Post 1924119)
The other thread posted in the first post the guy did the same thing. He was able to just take everything back apart and put the sensor back where it was with no problems.

I put my intercooler in back in 2011 and never had any issues, and it wasn't even spaced. I must have just had it jammed in there and didn't even notice. Starting about two years ago I would get the code once or twice per summer. I would clear it and it would usually never come back. I never once got it in the winter. Summer time rolled around this year and I got the code, cleared it and kept coming back every 2 weeks or so...so much more regularly.

Last Friday I put 5 washers at each mounting point to space the radiator back a little bit. I've only driven it 100 miles since then, but I don't have any soft codes or anything yet (which I would normaly see with vagcom pretty quickly, it would just take a while for the actual CEL to illuminate).

I'm probably not out of the clear yet, but I'm hoping I am. Who knows. All I know is I'm not buying a radiator. I'll by $100 worth of resistors to try and fool it before I buy a radiator becuase of an emissions sensor.

That's the thing, I can't put the sensor back in there cause the clips broke. Plus the SPM Intercooler is big and fitment is already really tight. So I'm stuck and unhappy about it. Can I just buy the Sensor itself? I'm surprised there's not an easy fix for a stupid pointless sensor.

vwgti2.0t 08-26-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utah Beast Mode (Post 1924136)
That's the thing, I can't put the sensor back in there cause the clips broke. Plus the SPM Intercooler is big and fitment is already really tight. So I'm stuck and unhappy about it. Can I just buy the Sensor itself? I'm surprised there's not an easy fix for a stupid pointless sensor.

Just stick it back in and put some silicone around it to hold it there. There'e enough room, you just have to space to radiator back with some washers. You can even keep it tight by using less washers and use the intercooler to kind of hold it in place. I found a PN# for the sensor itself, but nobody sells it anymore. It's supposed to be a one use thing as a set with the radiator. I've read about them being brazed into the radiator, but our's has clips and seems to be easily removable so I doubt ours is brazed/soldered in.


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