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APR stage 1 woes, or was i expecting too much?

anotherfiz

Ready to race!
had my APR tune for about 24 hours now.. there is a bit of a power increase, but not much, im a little worried that i might have a boost leak because the power doesnt come on smoothly from 3-5k rpm, its sort of... comes in surges, 3-4 short surges before it finally kicks and pulls hard. I got the forge DV installed as well

edit: this may be a silly subjective test, but i still only wheelspin through about half a second of second gear, very similar to stock
 

NoCaution

SofaKingEuro.com
I sorta thought the same thing. Then I switched back to stock... Um, yeah.
 

roastpuff

Go Kart Champion
thought the same thing. Drive with the 93 program for a day or so and then switch back. Pretty big difference.

This.

The 93 program is much more vicious than stock. The 91 is somewhat less, but it's still a heck of a lot more responsive than stock...
 

Killswitch24

Ready to race!
I noticed a less smooth power delivery or "surging" as you called it. It's nothing I thought to be worried about. I've only been chipped for a week and a half so I think it'll just take some getting used to.
 

Clempson13

Ready to race!
i experience the surge as well but i think it has more to do with how you drive the car and getting used to the programming over time to naturally adjust how you throttle it.
 

anotherfiz

Ready to race!
WOT is WOT, it should be smooth no?

I did some testing with stock, 91, and 93 mode. there is really no discernable difference in any mode.

I cant wheelspin in 2nd for the life of me, the turbo is no louder when standing still / revving.

Im leaning toward boost leak or bad flash
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
I feel the "surge" is a bit over stated. I've driven plenty of chipped MKVs and they all have the same feeling to me. But what turbo car doesnt?

Its basic math. You're adding boost with an increase in RPMs, thus naturally it wants to thrust in a quadratic/exponential motion. With boost control from the computer, this can be prevented and left with a linear form but what is the fun in that? You inhibit the natural progression of the engine power. This is what my grad research has been in.

The more linearity there is the less area under the graph you siphon. With a "surge" or non linear form, you provide more power throughout the RPMs with this, shall i call it, natural progression. For all of you engineers, you took calculus....you should know.

I really dont feel like posting equations and such, so I'm going to trust you all can grasp this concept using basic calculus.

I feel the "surge" to be normal and quite exciting. Its easy to save some MPGs and to stay out of boost if you need to. Its also EXTREMELY smooth. It doesnt spike up and down while you increase the RPMs. It just follows a smooth curve upwards. I saw some GIAC graphs and they had all kinds of peaks of maxs and mins throughout the "surge" which gives me the feeling that I'd be jerking all through the RPMs. The APR chip keeps me planted to the back of my seat throught the rev range.

You're call though.
 

anotherfiz

Ready to race!
I feel the "surge" is a bit over stated. I've driven plenty of chipped MKVs and they all have the same feeling to me. But what turbo car doesnt?

Its basic math. You're adding boost with an increase in RPMs, thus naturally it wants to thrust in a quadratic/exponential motion. With boost control from the computer, this can be prevented and left with a linear form but what is the fun in that? You inhibit the natural progression of the engine power. This is what my grad research has been in.

The more linearity there is the less area under the graph you siphon. With a "surge" or non linear form, you provide more power throughout the RPMs with this, shall i call it, natural progression. For all of you engineers, you took calculus....you should know.

I really dont feel like posting equations and such, so I'm going to trust you all can grasp this concept using basic calculus.

I feel the "surge" to be normal and quite exciting. Its easy to save some MPGs and to stay out of boost if you need to. Its also EXTREMELY smooth. It doesnt spike up and down while you increase the RPMs. It just follows a smooth curve upwards. I saw some GIAC graphs and they had all kinds of peaks of maxs and mins throughout the "surge" which gives me the feeling that I'd be jerking all through the RPMs. The APR chip keeps me planted to the back of my seat throught the rev range.

You're call though.

See, i dont feel this smooth linear increase in speed. this is my 3rd turbocharged car, so im very used to the intial surge that happens once boost peaks, this is way past peak boost, we're talking 3.2k rpm - 4.5k rpm, and it FEELS spiky!
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
See, i dont feel this smooth linear increase in speed. this is my 3rd turbocharged car, so im very used to the intial surge that happens once boost peaks, this is way past peak boost, we're talking 3.2k rpm - 4.5k rpm, and it FEELS spiky!

Very true, and I feel the same thing. It runs "out of breath" around the higher RPMs. But any chip will do that to you, unless you're pushing the limits of the turbo. A bigger turbo will help pull all the way (Such as Stasge 3)

Turbo vehicles have MOST to ALL of their power within 1.8KRPM to 5KRPM most NA motors peak around 3K-5K...Its all about the difference of F.I.

Look at the Civic SI. Hardly any usable power until you're about 5.5-6K RPM
 

anotherfiz

Ready to race!
Very true, and I feel the same thing. It runs "out of breath" around the higher RPMs. But any chip will do that to you, unless you're pushing the limits of the turbo. A bigger turbo will help pull all the way (Such as Stasge 3)
RPM

I think we;re having a communication lapse, OR im just retarded.

Im not talking about the loss of boost/power at around 5800 rpm, im talking about middle of the powerband, surgey/uneven acceleration.

it sounds like your saying that should be expected, which im fine with as long as its normal, its not jerky or anything.

but the lack of wheel spin is worrysome as well
 

mylesw42

Ready to race!
but the lack of wheel spin is worrysome as well

I did some back to back wide open throttle runs to see how Stock felt compared to my APR 93 run, and my car has trouble with wheel spin/hop with first and second. Torque steer is also WAY prevalent in APR 93, not in Stock. I do have a BSH intake though, which is probably helping with a some more HP.

Are you flooring your pedal, or just trying to accelerate quickly?
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
I think we;re having a communication lapse, OR im just retarded.

Im not talking about the loss of boost/power at around 5800 rpm, im talking about middle of the powerband, surgey/uneven acceleration.

it sounds like your saying that should be expected, which im fine with as long as its normal, its not jerky or anything.

but the lack of wheel spin is worrysome as well

Mis communication FTL. I see what you're saying.

This surge of power from what I understand is normal.

I wouldnt nitpick it too much, but if you're overly worried about it, then take it in.
 

anotherfiz

Ready to race!
I did some back to back wide open throttle runs to see how Stock felt compared to my APR 93 run, and my car has trouble with wheel spin/hop with first and second. Torque steer is also WAY prevalent in APR 93, not in Stock. I do have a BSH intake though, which is probably helping with a some more HP.

Are you flooring your pedal, or just trying to accelerate quickly?

Yeah see, im not experiencing any of that.

Spoke on the phone with my APR dealer, and when i told them i couldnt slip in 2nd gear he said "hmm that doesnt sound right at all"

so im going in soon to get it checked out!
 

Killswitch24

Ready to race!
It seems I wasn't as clear as I needed to be about the surging. Under WOT everything is great. I was just referring to having to relearn how to drive the car normally. The turbo boost pressures are higher than stock so you have to keep that in mind when laying into the gas a little under normal driving. I also have a DSG so that might have something to do with it.
 
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