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210 hp?

Alex.

Ready to race!
How come in Europe the car is said to have 210 ps (about 207hp), but when it arrived here, it was said to have 200 hp? I know its a little difference but I am just curious if there is something different about the cars.
 

bad2bone

Passed Driver's Ed
Europe gets the new updated engine version while we get the old one that is in the Golf V GTI, It's all a mater of money. USA also does not get optional DCC, park assist, rear view camera, etc.
 

Alex.

Ready to race!
too bad, but aren't they both tsi engines? What are the differences of the mkv engine and the new engine? Do you know any other differences that we are going to miss in the USA?
 

bad2bone

Passed Driver's Ed
Here's a quote from MotorTrend.com

"We won't get, even as options, adjustable electronic damper control, park assist, passenger airbag deactivation, rear foglamps, automatic climate control, a self-dimming mirror, storage drawers under the front seats, headlamp washers or manually adjusted headlamps. (We do get standard cruise control, but not the European-spec adaptive kind, and different cupholders. We can't be trusted, apparently, not to use the Euro version's slick built-in chrome bottle opener to pop open Miller High Lifes.) Xenon headlamps are now optional."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/112_0906_2010_volkswagen_gti_first_drive/index.html
 

Purie

Passed Driver's Ed
From what I understand is the that the US mkV 2008.5 model got the new TSI engine and so did the Scirocco but the euro GTI stead with the FSI engine. So the mkVI euro GTI gets the engine that we already had in the states and I think it only makes more power because of emissions and conversions. The engine we want is in the new Audi A4 (211hp 258tq). APR is doing really good things with it already.
 

zee

Go Kart Champion
Purie is right. North America already got the TSI engine about 12 months ago in the later MKV North American GTIs.
They are best identified by the engine cover, but switch also resulted in a change from timing belt to timing chain.
Top engine 2.0TSI - (CCTA) EA888
Lower engine 2.0TFSI - (BPY) EA113


North America only is only listed as 7hp less than the European counterpart. 200hp vs 207hp. Most have argued that this is due to octane of fuel that is available in the US as some MKV GTI owners have report higher numbers in the 2.0T by just switching to higher octane fuel.
In Europe, VW brochure recommends unleaded Super plus (~94 octane) which is ready available at their pumps, while in North America VW recommends 91 octane. 91 Octane is available in all US states, but 93 octane or higher is not available approximately west of the Mississippi.
Recommending fuel that is not available in some areas will not only hurt sales, also open VWoA to a potential of compensation lawsuits in the US.

Assuming about 15-18% in drivetrain loss(an average for FWD cars), a bone stock GTI's should be putting about 170hp to the wheels if they have 200hp at the crank.
Proof that octane helps is in a test by Fifth Gear UK they ran a GTI on higher octane gas. On the fifth gear dyno, the MKV GTI gained 5whp but just using higher octane fuel.
Watch the video below about 3mins in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHwCWdrtdg&feature=related

I think just spec'd as 200hp for North America marketing.:thumbsup:
 
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greg1420

New member
I disagree. From what I have researched it is NOT the same engine. Even a vw letter notes that USA will Not be getting the latest modifications that included some changes in the pistons/rings, air map. This is also why we will not get the higher milleage that the europe engine is now getting. I am talking of course about the 2.0 tsi. It has been further refined but the 2010 will Not carry this. I am upset about this and this will make the difference in me getting the car. Thanks LG
 

J400uk

Ready to race!
I don't think you US folk can really complain as you pay peanuts for your GTIs compared to the insane prices in europe.
 

zee

Go Kart Champion
I disagree. From what I have researched it is NOT the same engine. Even a vw letter notes that USA will Not be getting the latest modifications that included some changes in the pistons/rings, air map. This is also why we will not get the higher milleage that the europe engine is now getting. I am talking of course about the 2.0 tsi. It has been further refined but the 2010 will Not carry this. I am upset about this and this will make the difference in me getting the car. Thanks LG

Without more info/sources, your claim is just hearsay.

Please post your sources or such letter because I have not seen such information in my research.

The 2.0TSI EA888 Engine started production in March of 2008 and is in use in every VW 2.0TSI model lineup(EOS to Tiguan) with slight variations using acronyms like CCTA and CBFA. It has been confirmed that the German MK 6 GTI has the CCZB engine code which is in thesame line-up and is the first EA888 series engine that they have used in a GTI. You can check Oettinger and ABT's website for the new engine code which they post with the dyno numbers. If you also look at the MK V section, both companies lists only the only old 2.0TFSI (EA113) engine because they never received the new EA888 engine in the MKV like we did in North America.
Why did they not receive the new engine earlier like us?
Because the MKV German GTI was already out of production, while North American production continued for the 2009 model line up, so 2008.5 and up had the new engine already.

Differences between the engines.
http://www.my-gti.com/1046/differences-between-the-gti-mark-v-and-mark-vi-engine
 

greg1420

New member
This is from Car and Driver June 09 Will search for letter as well:
"Likely for cost reasons, the turbo four-cylinder engine remains the same in U.S. GTIs, while European models get revised tuning and slight tweaks, including a new fuel pump and mass-airflow sensor, which yield 10 additional horsepower. Transmission choices—a six-speed manual and a six-speed dual-clutch automated manual—are carry-overs as well".
 

zee

Go Kart Champion
This is from Car and Driver June 09 Will search for letter as well:
"Likely for cost reasons, the turbo four-cylinder engine remains the same in U.S. GTIs, while European models get revised tuning and slight tweaks, including a new fuel pump and mass-airflow sensor, which yield 10 additional horsepower. ".

While I await your letter from VWoA, let me analyse what you have just posted.:)

Your quote shows:
- US GTIs - stays thesame because they already have the new engine with revised tuning and slight tweaks, including a new fuel pump and mass-airflow sensor aka TSI.
-European GTIs - Get the update becasue the last engine they got in a GTI which stopped production in early 2008 did not have these changes. It was the TFSI.

Second, as I mentioned before the US 2.0TSI engine which arrived early 12 months ago already has ALL these changes(fuel pump etc). THAT is the difference between the TSI and the TFSI in the US GTI's from 2006 vs 2008.5 and UP.. The TFSI went out of productioni in 2008. To buy time while before mark 6, it was a silent update for the 2008.5 markV GTIs which were still being produced for the North American market and VWoA did not officially publish this. Just try to find an article which mentions the updated engine half way through 2008. You would not find such an article, but if you open the hood, you will find out that the heart in a 2008 and 2008.5 US GTI are different.
FYI, US Mark5 TSI owners already dyno 207hp just running higher 94octane gas. You can head over to the golfmk5.com to ask. VWoA cannot publish the higher HP because half of the USA does not get higher octane then 91. So it will just be a lawsuit waiting to happen from disgrunted owners.

Third, I recommend that you get Etka v7 and attempt to find this new hardware that is different which you talk about.

Notice I used 207hp. The European GTI gets 210ps which converts into 207hp. Go to VW UK or VW Germany
 
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greg1420

New member
I cant find vw statement at this point. Came up with someone else who read it as well but he also can not place the reference. If someone in here could post the vw statement that specifies that the engine is not coming to america would help clarify bubuski concerns. thanks
 
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