GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV
VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com



Go Back   VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com > Technical Topics > Golf 2.5L Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Tunes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-24-2016, 01:29 PM   #15
GIACUser
FIA GT Newbie
 
GIACUser's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 MKV EFR7163
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Riverside
Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugu1981 View Post
I have thought about that before as well. But if you are able to lock the wheels up with the Golf brakes, then it doesn't NEED any more force to stop the car, right? Which would mean going to GTI brakes is only beneficial by gives you more consistent stopping power when you are on the track. (if you are panic stopping repeatedly on the street, you are doing something wrong... if you are frequently going down big hills, you need to consider engine braking).

The reason I have GTI brakes on my car is because I tow with the car, and the extra weight could potentially overcome the stock brakes. As a result, I upgraded to the GTI brakes to give myself more stopping force. I have yet to put it to the test though, and am hoping I never have to. I have also installed much wider tires to allow for more traction (both to accelerate and decelerate, and for anyone thinking that wider tires = heavier tires, and would only slow me down: my car is turbo'd, so I have more than enough power to overcome the extra weight from the tires).


Here's what I think makes the most sense:
http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-par...ar-stop-faster

and i quote:
"Big brake systems were not designed to stop your car sooner, but rather, stop it more efficiently and consistently. The larger calipers, vented discs, and exotic-compound pads increase heat capacity and heat dissipation. These upgraded braking systems not only perform well under extreme temperatures, but in most cases perform better when hot as opposed to average street driving temperatures. This is definitely something to consider when deciding on rotor and pad compounds. Because these brakes dissipate heat more effectively, they reduce brake fade. Brake fade occurs under high temperatures, can be caused by boiled brake fluid, and results in a soft pedal and elongated stopping distances. Big brake systems donít decrease your carís stopping distance over stock. Instead, they are designed to perform consistently under extreme conditions so that your car will stop just as well the first time as the Níth time. "


Peter
"The reason I have GTI brakes on my car is because I tow with the car, and the extra weight could potentially overcome the stock brakes."

Just an FYI... as you increase speed you are also increasing the amount of braking power needed to stop the car. I will add to that by saying that stopping or slowing safely requires modulation if you are setting up for a turn (as opposed to panic stopping). Big brakes provide that. I have driven my car at the track with stock brakes and with modified Golf R brakes and the difference is amazing and I can brake much later coming in to turns. So I have larger brakes for spiritied canyon driving and track use. Driving non-spirited in town driving, stock brakes work just fine.
__________________
| 2008 GTI under construction as of July 2017 looking for 500whp| EFR7163 | LSD | DriverMotorsport tune | UNI custom DSG tune | Aquamist W/M | Brembo brakes f/r |
| YCW Coilovers | fifteen52 fender flares | 18x10 w265/35 Michelin SportCup2 | Recaro Speedseats |
GIACUser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2016, 08:30 PM   #16
gugu1981
Autocross Newbie
 
Drives: 2012 JSW 2.5 5MT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIACUser View Post
"The reason I have GTI brakes on my car is because I tow with the car, and the extra weight could potentially overcome the stock brakes."

Just an FYI... as you increase speed you are also increasing the amount of braking power needed to stop the car. I will add to that by saying that stopping or slowing safely requires modulation if you are setting up for a turn (as opposed to panic stopping). Big brakes provide that. I have driven my car at the track with stock brakes and with modified Golf R brakes and the difference is amazing and I can brake much later coming in to turns. So I have larger brakes for spiritied canyon driving and track use. Driving non-spirited in town driving, stock brakes work just fine.
maximum friction provided by the tires does NOT increase as speed increase. So if your stock brakes can overcome the friction provided by the tires that you are using (by locking it up), you have adequate braking power.

setting up for a turn and spirited canyon driving are both testing the consistency of the brakes under repeated use. I suspect your Golf R brakes truly shines when you are several laps in, and the stock brakes would have overheated by that point.

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6565
Here's some tests done on a Z, there is a nice table at the bottom with the numbers.

Even though the article made it sound like the 332mm stoptech made the car stop much faster from 100mph, the stopping distance only had about 1.5% difference(the temperature was drastically different, which again, points to consistent braking power under repeated use), and that was the average of 10 runs.

Granted, the stock brakes on the Z, regardless of model, is going to be significantly better than what's on the Golf. But to me, the tests performed by that article demonstrate that the stopping distance is NOT (significantly) shorter with a big brake kit.

Anyways, this is all internet debate, each person's experience may be different. I am merely going to point to the data, the readers can drawn their own conclusions.


Peter

Last edited by gugu1981; 12-29-2016 at 08:41 PM.
gugu1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 11:43 PM   #17
MLue1
FIA World Rally Car Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 596
VW braking system is pretty good on the mk6, especially with the early cars with the larger rear brakerotors. They also use the rear brakes agressively compared to other manufacturers to help out the fronts, so over all braking is better but we have to replace the rear pads more often.
MLue1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 12:12 AM   #18
Cadubya
DUBYA
 
Cadubya's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 K04 GTI 4DR 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: DALLAS
Posts: 7,715
What do I need for front caliper upgrade?

The OEM braking system is more than adequate at generating the necessary braking force required to overcome the friction of the tire and the road. It's not until full on racing compound tires are being used that more braking force would be necessary. Because at that point the stickier tire grips the road better, thus you'd need more braking force to overcome the tires friction with the road. Aftermarket big brake kits aren't generally designed to increase braking ability, they are designed for braking repeatability and feel. They allow you to get the same braking ability over and over again. If they were designed for increased braking ability you'd just be able to invoke the ABS quicker.
__________________
CLICK HERE FOR MY BUILD
Cadubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2017, 03:23 AM   #19
MLue1
FIA World Rally Car Champion
 
Drives: 2010 Golf 2.5 CW 5sp / 2009 Tiguan
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ON your tail with my slow a$$ 2.5
Posts: 596
Pedal feel is a great point, everyone is focused on max braking but pedal feel is important as well, for those that actually race wheel to wheel it is more important than max braking.
MLue1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 03:11 PM   #20
davserbic
FIA GT Newbie
 
davserbic's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf MKVI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Richmond
Posts: 740
What would be the largest size rotor that you can run on the stock 2.5L brakes + calipers?

Also — just to confirm yet again. Are GTI Brakes (Calipers+Pads) the same as Golf Brakes (Calipers + Pads)? Just maybe color difference?
__________________

Golf 2.5L Build Thread | Airlift Slam Series + V2 Management | APR Carbonio | Mercedes Alphards | Golf R Conversion |


FOLLOW ME ON IG: @DAVSERBIC
davserbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 09:19 PM   #21
gugu1981
Autocross Newbie
 
Drives: 2012 JSW 2.5 5MT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by davserbic View Post
What would be the largest size rotor that you can run on the stock 2.5L brakes + calipers?

Also ó just to confirm yet again. Are GTI Brakes (Calipers+Pads) the same as Golf Brakes (Calipers + Pads)? Just maybe color difference?


GTI rotors are 312mm, and Golf rotors are 288mm. I don't know what the maximum rotor size you can run on stock Golf brakes. I have not heard of anyone changing to bigger rotors without changing anything else. Not sure what benefit that would provide, since in that scenario, the pads are the same and held at the same place.

Caliper and Pads are the same across GTI and Golf. The only differences are the color of the caliper, the caliper carrier, and the rotor.


Peter
gugu1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 10:20 PM   #22
davserbic
FIA GT Newbie
 
davserbic's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf MKVI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Richmond
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugu1981 View Post
GTI rotors are 312mm, and Golf rotors are 288mm. I don't know what the maximum rotor size you can run on stock Golf brakes. I have not heard of anyone changing to bigger rotors without changing anything else. Not sure what benefit that would provide, since in that scenario, the pads are the same and held at the same place.

Caliper and Pads are the same across GTI and Golf. The only differences are the color of the caliper, the caliper carrier, and the rotor.


Peter
Thanks for the info Peter! That leads me to anther question then ó

Any idea why the caliper carriers are different if the calipers + pads are the same? If I upgrade my Golf rotors to GTI rotors (288mm to 312mm) will I need to change the caliper carrier as well?
__________________

Golf 2.5L Build Thread | Airlift Slam Series + V2 Management | APR Carbonio | Mercedes Alphards | Golf R Conversion |


FOLLOW ME ON IG: @DAVSERBIC
davserbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2017, 07:40 PM   #23
gugu1981
Autocross Newbie
 
Drives: 2012 JSW 2.5 5MT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by davserbic View Post
Thanks for the info Peter! That leads me to anther question then ó

Any idea why the caliper carriers are different if the calipers + pads are the same? If I upgrade my Golf rotors to GTI rotors (288mm to 312mm) will I need to change the caliper carrier as well?
On the GTI/GLI, the caliper carrier moves the caliper further out from the center, with the larger rotors to go with it. Because the caliper is further from the center, it provides more torque(not engine torque, but the physics term torque) to slow the car down (even while the caliper is identical to the Golf/Jetta)

Peter
gugu1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2017, 09:10 PM   #24
davserbic
FIA GT Newbie
 
davserbic's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf MKVI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Richmond
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugu1981 View Post
On the GTI/GLI, the caliper carrier moves the caliper further out from the center, with the larger rotors to go with it. Because the caliper is further from the center, it provides more torque(not engine torque, but the physics term torque) to slow the car down (even while the caliper is identical to the Golf/Jetta)

Peter
That makes sense ó so then you would indeed need GTI / GLI caliper carriers if wanting to upgrade to the larger GTI rotors.
__________________

Golf 2.5L Build Thread | Airlift Slam Series + V2 Management | APR Carbonio | Mercedes Alphards | Golf R Conversion |


FOLLOW ME ON IG: @DAVSERBIC
davserbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2017, 01:34 AM   #25
gugu1981
Autocross Newbie
 
Drives: 2012 JSW 2.5 5MT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by davserbic View Post
That makes sense — so then you would indeed need GTI / GLI caliper carriers if wanting to upgrade to the larger GTI rotors.
Correct, you will need the GTI/GLI caliper carrier if you are installing GTI/GLI rotors.





Peter
gugu1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.