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Official Timing Chain Tensioner failure thread

zrickety

The Fixer
If you do extended oil changes, the chain and guides are probably a good idea. Otherwise I would just do the tensioner.
 

prospal

Ready to race!
If you do extended oil changes, the chain and guides are probably a good idea. Otherwise I would just do the tensioner.

Aside from the first 10k I had the car (I didn't know better, heh), I've kept to the 5k oil change intervals.

Yeah, I feel like I haven't seen much talk about bad chains/guides, so I'm inclined to not touch it, but I'd have to see hours of labor difference by saving it for another time.
 

mfractal

Ready to race!
It's a good idea to replace the chain since there's a newer revision out. and guides are so cheap that I don't see why one wouldn't replace them.
 

prospal

Ready to race!
It's a good idea to replace the chain since there's a newer revision out. and guides are so cheap that I don't see why one wouldn't replace them.

I know the parts are relatively cheap, I guess I was just asking here if the extra labor is worth it given that I'm going in to replace the tensioner and screen.

For instance, if its 2.5 hours on top of the work I'm currently doing, but to replace the chain/guides from scratch takes 3.5 hours, and there really isn't an issue with the chain until maybe 120k, I'd take my chances. But if I'd be saving a good chunk of labor, like 2+ hours or so, I'd probably do it now.

I guess I'm just a little naive about the difference in work to replace the tensioner and replace the entirety of chain/guides.

Thanks for any help!
 

Lucas_R

Passed Driver's Ed
I mentioned a few pages back that my GTI was still rattling on cold starts (and also sometimes if its been parked for a short time with the engine still warm) even after the cam chain tensioner, timing cover case, chain guides and all necessary bolts were replaced a few months ago.

Today i decided to inspect the tensioner via the little inspection hole in the timing case cover (this requires removal of the wheel, inner guard liner and turbo outlet pipe to access the inspection hole). Now, from my limited knowledge of these tensioners, this appears to be normal - see pics below. Any comments from someone with more experience?

FYI the tensioner update was done by my local Audi dealer and it has been back once since then to check for the source of the rattle noise which still remains - to be told its normal and nothing to worry about.

The car is a late 2009 GTI Mk6 with 66,000km (approx 42,000miles) and full service history - last oil change was about 2 months ago when the tensioner was replaced (Liqui-Moly TopTec 4200).







 
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Sebastian89

Ready to race!
Looks perfectly normal to me... new Rev tensioner, the safety clip against the base to prevent it from retracting if it does loose pressure
I'm about to do mine since I'm at 65k (mi), but I have the 13, so I'm praying I have the new Rev in there already.... Funny opening other people's cars but not your own lol
 

Lucas_R

Passed Driver's Ed
^ thanks for the reply. So as i thought, it appears this tensioner is ok?!

So any idea what is causing the rattle im still getting on startup then? Im thinking the other tensioner for the oil pump and balance shafts might be faulty?
 

djphathead

New member
Blown Head

I've been reading this thread since I suffered timing chain tension failure last week.

Here's my story: I have a 2012 GTI 6M, late 2011 build. I am the original owner. All Stock. I follow all scheduled service (not all done at dealer). I have 86K miles. I drive mostly Hwy. I don't drive it hard ( I am 56 years old).This car is babied (garage kept-never seen a car wash-looks and drives like new).

The check engine light started to come on intermittently around Christmas.
I made an appt. at local VW dealer for New Years eve. They found misfires-timing off and finally diagnosed the failed timing chain. I am out of warranty-no extended. They couldn't tell me about the condition of engine, although they suspected possible engine damage (engine sounded fine). The tech claims to have heard a slapping sound while diagnosing the problem. Then it wouldn't start. They claim they would have to do the timing chain work first (approx $2100) and then see if timing issue corrected etc. -or I could save the 2100 if indeed the engine turned out to damaged and opt for a new motor 8K. ( quoted 3500 for the head job)

So I had it towed to my guy. He tore off top and found bent valves etc. He's going to check on rest of engine to see whats my best recourse. He was quoted 6K for a rebuilt motor. My local wrecker is looking for a used engine.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
If it's just bent valves a machine shop can fix the head pretty easily. If you or your guy can reassemble the engine, gaskets and a new tensioner are only a couple hundred bucks. The whole thing could be running under a grand, this is best case scenario.
 

xHeartcoreboyx

IceCream GTI
After about 5 months of going with the new tensioner as a preventive maintenance. I now have a rattle at some startups again. Not as bad as before.

Is mine installed correctly?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lucas_R

Passed Driver's Ed
^ yours looks the same as mine (see my post about 4 posts up the page with photos). The only difference i can see is that your tensioner is sticking out another 1 or 2 ribs than mine.

Like you, mine still rattles despite the new tensioner.....so im now wondering if it could be the other tensioner which is just under/behind the cam chain tensioner (the other tensioner runs the chain for the oil pump and 2 balancer shafts).
 

dopedpanda

Ready to race!
It doesn´t have to be the tensioner that is rattling. I have seen multiple examples of the variable valve timing wheel and all that to cause the rattle.

Just have a read; (1.4 TSI, same symptoms as the bigger brothers)

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11007

On the picture shown, you could also take the spring clip on the tensioner rod and move all the way back, that way you are making a 100% solid tensioner.

The chains and all that can also be worn (the chains stretch, mine was 2½ cm longer than the new chain) and i couldn´t get away with a new tensioner, mine also rattled on deacceleration.
 

Lucas_R

Passed Driver's Ed
^ thanks dopedpanda for that info - it gave me the motivation to try this.....

I think we might be onto something here....?

After reading this thread: http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f112/mk-vi-gti-noise-upon-start-up-cold-weather-74027.html

I started looking into this camshaft adjuster magnet as a possible culprit of the noise im still getting on startup (when engine is cold/cool).

Firstly, VW have revised the part so generally a revised part means that the original part had a higher than expected failure rate and required the engineers to re-think the design of that part.

With my car being a late 2009 built GTI, i have the old version camshaft adjuster magnet (metal body and silver in colour).

The new (revised) part has a black plastic body, so its easy to see whether yours is the original or the revised part.

Revised part: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Search/SiteSearch/06L109259A/ES2766014/

Original part:








After reading the thread above, i decided to remove this camshaft adjuster to take a better look and to see if there was any way to clean it out etc so that it would work correctly again. Im happy to buy the revised part from ECS Tuning, but wanted to try fixing the original one.

Once i had removed the part, i noticed that the "piston" that protrudes from the part was quite hard to move in/out of the body of the part. I wondered if some brake cleaner and degreaser might help loosen this up? So i sprayed both products into the little hole you can see in the picture below and within a short space of time, the "piston" was moving in/out of the body with much more ease.

I sprayed some more cleaner in there and let it sit for a good 5 mins before letting it drain out and cleaning it all up.

I put it back onto the car and connected it back up. I took out VCDS and made the camshaft adjuster magnet pulse in and out about 30-40 times.

Started the car up (1st start in a week) and no rattle. Not sure at this early stage whether this cleaning process has given this part a new lease on life or whether this will be short lived and the engine will be rattling on cold starts again next week....time will tell.

One thing is for sure, if you shake/rattle this camshaft adjuster magnet it makes the exact same sound that my engine does on cold starts.

Best part is that it only takes 5 mins to remove this part to inspect/clean it.

Piston retracted:
(you can also see the small rectangular shaped hole where i sprayed my cleaner to reach the moving parts inside):




Piston extended:




Showing engine with part removed:



 
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