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Single mass fly wheel back to a dual mass?

intellistar

intellistar

Ready to race!
Both links do not look like the one you want. The ECS one is a OEM replacement, and is not an uprated clutch. On the Sachs link:

If you want to go back to using a DMFW, the Sachs Performance Clutch you want is this one:
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Powerclutch/Audi/Audi-A3-8PA-Sportback-09-04-/2-0-TFSI-147-kW-;-CAWB-CCZA-;-09/2004/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::67.html

If you are going to use a SMFW, the kit is this one (but without the FW):
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...rmance-Clutch-Kit-One-Mass-Flywheel::197.html

The rigid version is for DMFW, while the sprung hub version is for SMFW. I have the SMFW set from Sachs, but if you are looking to keep noise at an absolute minimum, then the Rigid Disc version with a NEW DMFW is the way to go. DMFW are really not meant to be resurfaced. SMFW, however, can be resurfaced as long as they are within the required min specs. Also, mixing and matching FWs with Clutch packages between manufacturers is generally not recommended unless it has been tested to be compatible.

Release bearings can be reused, but it is best to replace them with every clutch replacement as someone else had mentioned.
 
intellistar

intellistar

Ready to race!
Forgot to mention, the staff at Sachs are pretty helpful, so you can always email them at info@sachsperformance.com with any questions. Also, you don't have to pay the VAT when buying from the US, which is included in the listed price on the website. You will have to pay an import fee upon delivery, but it still ends up being cheaper than the listed price.
 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
intellistar said:
Both links do not look like the one you want. The ECS one is a OEM replacement, and is not an uprated clutch. On the Sachs link:

If you want to go back to using a DMFW, the Sachs Performance Clutch you want is this one:
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sachs-Performance-Clutch-Powerclutch/Audi/Audi-A3-8PA-Sportback-09-04-/2-0-TFSI-147-kW-;-CAWB-CCZA-;-09/2004/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::67.html

If you are going to use a SMFW, the kit is this one (but without the FW):
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...rmance-Clutch-Kit-One-Mass-Flywheel::197.html

The rigid version is for DMFW, while the sprung hub version is for SMFW. I have the SMFW set from Sachs, but if you are looking to keep noise at an absolute minimum, then the Rigid Disc version with a NEW DMFW is the way to go. DMFW are really not meant to be resurfaced. SMFW, however, can be resurfaced as long as they are within the required min specs. Also, mixing and matching FWs with Clutch packages between manufacturers is generally not recommended unless it has been tested to be compatible.

Release bearings can be reused, but it is best to replace them with every clutch replacement as someone else had mentioned.
Click to expand...

How is the DMFW option different from the one I had posted from Emmanuele design? See link http://www.emmanueledesign.com/collections/volkswagen/products/sachs-race-engineering-mk6-gti-golf-r-stage-1-clutch-kit
 
intellistar

intellistar

Ready to race!
Mlody91 said:
How is the DMFW option different from the one I had posted from Emmanuele design? See link http://www.emmanueledesign.com/collections/volkswagen/products/sachs-race-engineering-mk6-gti-golf-r-stage-1-clutch-kit
Click to expand...

Sorry for being unclear, but I was initially referring to the OP's original links.

Regarding the Emmanuele design link, the picture shows an uprated clutch, but it is the sprung hub version. My understanding is that the rigid clutch version should be used with a DMFW. If you look at the link that I provided, there are no Springs in the hub.

Personally, I would email Sachs regarding using the sprung version with a DMFW versus using the rigid version just to gain some clarity, as they specifically list separate versions based on the flywheel being used.

Also on price, I can't guarantee accuracy, but my estimate places ordering from Sachs to cost around $740 all in based on current (8/27/15) conversion rates.

Base Price - 19% VAT + (Euro Fees of 3%+.35EUR) + Shipping
635.71EUR/1.19*1.03+.35+78.5 = 629.09 EUR ~ $707.72

I had to also pay the UPS guy about $30 in import fees, so that would be around $740. That being said, my kit was the full SMFW kit, so I probably paid more for shipping due to the extra weight, and I believe the import fees are tied to the purchase price. Obviously, if you pay by credit card, you might also have foreign transaction fees, but I used Paypal bank transfer to avoid that.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying anything negative about ordering from Emmanuele design. I'm just providing info on the discounts, various fees, and such all in when ordering from Germany, so you can make an informed decision when choosing a vendor.
 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
intellistar said:
Sorry for being unclear, but I was initially referring to the OP's original links.

Regarding the Emmanuele design link, the picture shows an uprated clutch, but it is the sprung hub version. My understanding is that the rigid clutch version should be used with a DMFW. If you look at the link that I provided, there are no Springs in the hub.

Personally, I would email Sachs regarding using the sprung version with a DMFW versus using the rigid version just to gain some clarity, as they specifically list separate versions based on the flywheel being used.

Also on price, I can't guarantee accuracy, but my estimate places ordering from Sachs to cost around $740 all in based on current (8/27/15) conversion rates.

Base Price - 19% VAT + (Euro Fees of 3%+.35EUR) + Shipping
635.71EUR/1.19*1.03+.35+78.5 = 629.09 EUR ~ $707.72

I had to also pay the UPS guy about $30 in import fees, so that would be around $740. That being said, my kit was the full SMFW kit, so I probably paid more for shipping due to the extra weight, and I believe the import fees are tied to the purchase price. Obviously, if you pay by credit card, you might also have foreign transaction fees, but I used Paypal bank transfer to avoid that.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying anything negative about ordering from Emmanuele design. I'm just providing info on the discounts, various fees, and such all in when ordering from Germany, so you can make an informed decision when choosing a vendor.
Click to expand...

Thank you :thumbsup:

I've actually just sent an email to Sachs asking about the main differences between the two and what would work best with our OEM dmfw. I'll post their response once I receive it. Cheers
 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
So I got a hold of someone at Sachs over the weekend and after a few emails, he suggested this ---> http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=155

The first thing I noticed was the price tag and thought, "Okay. I guess this guy's not interested in helping me, he just wants to sell me their most expensive clutch kit." I almost closed the tab but there was a bit in the details portion that grabbed my attention, "To compensate the dual mass flywheel and it´s vibration damping, the SACHS Performance clutch kit contains a clutch disc with torsion springs that function as vibration damper between engine and gearbox."

So is this a single mass flywheel but without the chatter?!!! If so, I think we may have a new contender for the KMD and RSR clutch kits.
 
sterkrazzy

sterkrazzy

Autocross Champion
Mlody91 said:
So is this a single mass flywheel but without the chatter?!!! If so, I think we may have a new contender for the KMD and RSR clutch kits.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that's the same exact clutch I have. It's hard to tell since emmanuelles website doesn't have part numbers, but that's about what I paid and from the picture it looks like the same one.

It's definitely not chatter free. It doesn't chatter very bad though. The only time it ever bugs me is at drive-thrus and banks, when the sound can bounce off the walls it makes it really noticeable.
 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
sterkrazzy said:
I'm pretty sure that's the same exact clutch I have. It's hard to tell since emmanuelles website doesn't have part numbers, but that's about what I paid and from the picture it looks like the same one.

It's definitely not chatter free. It doesn't chatter very bad though. The only time it ever bugs me is at drive-thrus and banks, when the sound can bounce off the walls it makes it really noticeable.
Click to expand...

Do you know if an upgraded transmission oil would make a difference? I'm wondering if a thicker viscosity would help deaden some of the noise.
 
APdubbin

APdubbin

Ready to race!
So just an update... I talked to my shop and they said that releaser bearing should be a new one. Reusing it is I'll advised. So my next step is to see if Sachs can send that with the clutch kit or not. Once I have that figured out, I'm going to order it and keep you guys updated in the install.
 
sterkrazzy

sterkrazzy

Autocross Champion
Mlody91 said:
Do you know if an upgraded transmission oil would make a difference? I'm wondering if a thicker viscosity would help deaden some of the noise.
Click to expand...

That's what I was told. I wrote my review here - http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76318

They suggested to swap to a 75w140 gear oil. I would imagine with the gear oil and a fluidampr that the chatter might be near eliminated.

My AC is off 98% of the time. Even when its 95-100 degrees here in Florida, the AC is off and the windows are down. It's pretty damn quiet when the AC is off, so it's never a problem. If it's so hot that I need the AC then my windows are closed and with the music on just slightly you can't tell it's chattering.

If you have an exhaust and an intake, you probably won't mind the chatter either.

I'm personally glad I went with a smfw. I wouldn't bother with a dmfw clutch, and I wouldn't even think about other clutch kits with a smfw. It's a really nice set up. Maybe a little pricier than other options, but I think it was totally worth it.
 
intellistar

intellistar

Ready to race!
Mlody91 said:
So I got a hold of someone at Sachs over the weekend and after a few emails, he suggested this ---> http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=155

The first thing I noticed was the price tag and thought, "Okay. I guess this guy's not interested in helping me, he just wants to sell me their most expensive clutch kit." I almost closed the tab but there was a bit in the details portion that grabbed my attention, "To compensate the dual mass flywheel and it´s vibration damping, the SACHS Performance clutch kit contains a clutch disc with torsion springs that function as vibration damper between engine and gearbox."

So is this a single mass flywheel but without the chatter?!!! If so, I think we may have a new contender for the KMD and RSR clutch kits.
Click to expand...

That looks to be like the one I have, but the part number is slightly different (883089.000034 v 883089.000046). Price is exactly the same. Browsing the website, it looks like the .000034 version is under the Golf R section vs .000046 being listed for GTIs. Looks to be exactly the same though.

Regarding noise, I had posted a review on my setup awhile back here:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92588

Today, it's even quieter, but I still get the gear lash on deceleration. Chatter is nonexistent with the A/C off. With the A/C on, there are times when I hear the chattering. I haven't tried to fully test the criteria but I think it happens more often after spirited drives when the external temp is high. If it does occur, the noise can be reduced by letting out the slowly clutch while in neutral.

Did the Sachs guy ever explain the sprung vs rigid clutch disc difference when using a DMF?
 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
I did ask about the sprung versus rigid clutch disc difference but he just seemed to be confused as to what engine my GTI had.

"Hi Michal,

thanks for your response.

Mh... I don´t know, which version this should be.

We only offer our customers a torsion damped disc in combination with a single mass flywheel like this Kit here:

http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=155

But there is also a ''problem'' to find your right engine, because the CCTA engine is only mounted in Golf MK5 for example,
but not in the MK6. Do you have a base hp of 200hp or 210hp?

If you´ve any further questions, don´t hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards from Hamburg, Germany!

Michael Dittmer"

I told him 2010 MK6 GTI w/ CCTA engine code and I guess that wasn't enough. I'll ask again if he could clarify what the benefits are of the rigid versus sprung clutch kits.

 
mlody91

mlody91

Ready to race!
APdubbin said:
So just an update... I talked to my shop and they said that releaser bearing should be a new one. Reusing it is I'll advised. So my next step is to see if Sachs can send that with the clutch kit or not. Once I have that figured out, I'm going to order it and keep you guys updated in the install.
Click to expand...

Also, does anyone have any input about this releaser bearing? I've honestly never heard of it. Is this the throw-out bearing?
 
zrickety

zrickety

The Fixer
Yes, I believe they are referring to the same part.
 
APdubbin

APdubbin

Ready to race!
They told me they would throw in the release bearing for 64 euro (not bad), with a grand total of 654 euro including shipping. That's 734 usd for a full clutch kit. They told me I might have to resurface the flywheel. The shop told me they would decide that depending on how my flywheel looks. So I'm pulling the trigger on this setup tonight.
 
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