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Stock springs with SuperPro Ball Joints?

Blakcard

Blakcard

Autocross Newbie
oooooh snap that nova looks good!

I really wonder sometimes why car manufactures stopped making wrap around rear glass..... right now the back window is so tiny the C pillar so huge car's are constantly in blind spots. mirrors adjustments can only do so much... .having to depend on electronic gadgets that tell you a car is beside you amounts to lazy driving.

arrgggg
 
Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
jay745 said:
I was really just referring to the stock struts, shocks and springs. Changing the control arm bushings and replacing other rubber bushings with poly bushings go a long way as well for fairly cheap.
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Ok, understood. I may end up going adjustable dampening coil-overs in the long run...I really don't want to change the daily driving characteristics of the car too much, considering it's not a dedicated track car.

Thanks for the input.
 
Cadubya

Cadubya

Autocross Newbie
jay745 said:
lol this guy. "Do as I say, not as I do"





But yeah an ALK will make a nice difference for turn in. Not sure it will help your tire wear problem much though. If you're going to be tracking the car you should consider changing out that stock suspension.
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Different goals, different budget :iono:
 
theclutch

theclutch

Go Kart Newbie
Cadubya said:
....I'm on bilstein HD's and stock springs btw....
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I'm considering the same setup for my 2013 Mk6 = Bilstein HD's with stock springs. Did the suspension drop at all for you? I'm worried and read somewhere that this setup actually caused the front to sit higher. That would suck. I'd prefer a small 1" drop all around.

What front and rear sway bars do you use? I will be doing track time 2 weekends a year. So I'm not looking to do anything extravagant. I just want the car to handle well on the street with some track time thrown in. I used to do this a lot prior to kids and now am getting back into it.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Just a quick update: I installed the SuperPro Anti-Lift Kit a few weeks ago and just had it aligned. Unfortunately, my front camber isn't centered and I have -.5° more on the left than the right side. So without dealing with the hassle of trying to recenter the subframe, would you guys recommend camber plates or adjustable ball joints to allow adjustment? Thanks!

 
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Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Ronnie_B said:
Just a quick update: I installed the SuperPro Anti-Lift Kit a few weeks ago and just had it aligned. Unfortunately, my front camber isn't centered and I have -.5° more on the left than the right side. So without dealing with the hassle of trying to recenter the subframe, would you guys recommend camber plates or adjustable ball joints to allow adjustment? Thanks!
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Wanted to give a quick update to this thread:
The SuperPro ALK vastly improved turn in and steering feedback mid-corner. Definitely money well spent.
After a few track days I realized that much of my tire wear was caused by a really course asphalt surface at the track I've been running at. I switched to a different track (VIR) and noticed a massive improvement. I also decided to upgrade from PSS to Yokohama Advan 08r. So far these tires have faired much better on track.

So with all that said, I still have unequal front camber left-right side. I'm considering the SuperPro ball joints to provide some camber adjustment to fix that. Any feedback on running SuperPro ALK with adjustable ball joints at stock ride height?
 
MrFancypants

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
My car has the same problem. .5 degrees more negative on one side, and bang on in spec at .9 on the other side. I got to chat with the technician and he said that everything looked good visually, but it might be worth having a close look at the ball joints. Later on I also realized that the side that was out had taken some really nasty pothole hits over the years. So my guess is that the spindle on that side is ever so slightly tweaked. At some point in the next few months I'll be swapping them out for Passat spindles and control arms. If I'm digging one out I may as well use nicer parts on both sides.
 
Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Short Bus said:
My car has the same problem. .5 degrees more negative on one side, and bang on in spec at .9 on the other side. I got to chat with the technician and he said that everything looked good visually, but it might be worth having a close look at the ball joints. Later on I also realized that the side that was out had taken some really nasty pothole hits over the years. So my guess is that the spindle on that side is ever so slightly tweaked. At some point in the next few months I'll be swapping them out for Passat spindles and control arms. If I'm digging one out I may as well use nicer parts on both sides.
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It's likely the subframe that's shifted. Small shifts are normal, the problem is that without the ability to make adjustments, we have no way of correcting. I'm deciding between camber plates and adjustable balljoints. So far, I'm not finding many people that run the ball joints. :confused:
 
MrFancypants

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
Ronnie_B said:
It's likely the subframe that's shifted. Small shifts are normal, the problem is that without the ability to make adjustments, we have no way of correcting. I'm deciding between camber plates and adjustable balljoints. So far, I'm not finding many people that run the ball joints. :confused:
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In my case, probably not. If one side is in spec and the other side is .5 out of spec, shifting the subframe isn't going to fix it. If the subframe were out both sides would be out of spec by roughly the same amount, with one side more to the positive and the other side more negative. Shifting the subframe takes camber from one side to add to the other. So if one side is in spec and the other is not something is bent or you have excessive bushing wear.
 
Cadubya

Cadubya

Autocross Newbie
Short Bus said:
In my case, probably not. If one side is in spec and the other side is .5 out of spec, shifting the subframe isn't going to fix it. If the subframe were out both sides would be out of spec by roughly the same amount, with one side more to the positive and the other side more negative. Shifting the subframe takes camber from one side to add to the other. So if one side is in spec and the other is not something is bent or you have excessive bushing wear.
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Depends on how much you shift the subframe.
 
MrFancypants

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
Cadubya said:
Depends on how much you shift the subframe.
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I'm trying to visualize this and maybe there's something I'm missing.

Viewing the suspension and subframe assembly from the front.... in-spec you would see an isosceles triangle with a line drawn from ball joint to ball joint, then two lines up from the ball joints through the center of the nuts which secures the strut shafts to the car making the third point where those lines meet.

The sum of the angles in a triangle is always 180 degrees. The only way to increase the angles at both of the ball joints at the same time (or decrease them at the same time) is to increase or decrease the angle at the top by the same amount as the sum of the adjustment at the ball joints.

I can't see any way that you can shift the subframe left, right, fore, or after that could resolve an issue where camber on one side was in-spec and the other was a half a degree out.

What am I missing?
 
Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Short Bus said:
I'm trying to visualize this and maybe there's something I'm missing.

Viewing the suspension and subframe assembly from the front.... in-spec you would see an isosceles triangle with a line drawn from ball joint to ball joint, then two lines up from the ball joints through the center of the nuts which secures the strut shafts to the car making the third point where those lines meet.

The sum of the angles in a triangle is always 180 degrees. The only way to increase the angles at both of the ball joints at the same time (or decrease them at the same time) is to increase or decrease the angle at the top by the same amount as the sum of the adjustment at the ball joints.

I can't see any way that you can shift the subframe left, right, fore, or after that could resolve an issue where camber on one side was in-spec and the other was a half a degree out.

What am I missing?
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Just to clarify, spec is a range of numbers, not a singular number. US Camber Spec is -.5° +/- .5°, so a setting of -.9° has the potential of taking away camber from the opposite side. In other words, a setting of -.9° left side / -.4° right side doesn't necessarily mean something is bent, it means that the camber needs to be equalized side to side. (Even though both sides are technically within spec) It's unrealistic to expect -.9° camber on both sides with stock suspension. -.9° is at the far maximum end of the spec range, not "bang on". Make sense?

BTW, all this discussion and I still haven't had anyone chime in about the original question regarding experiences with SuperPro ball joints. :laugh:
 
zef

zef

Drag Racing Champion
I have the superpro ball joints and had my alignment checked 3 times in the last 6 months and they have not moved at all.

After I installed the tyrol deadset collar kit I had .5 more camber on one side. Decided not to go camber plates due to nvh/harshness. These were a great compromise. These have seen track time as well and no issues either.
 
Roadrunner_GTI

Roadrunner_GTI

Drag Racing Champion
zef said:
I have the superpro ball joints and had my alignment checked 3 times in the last 6 months and they have not moved at all.

After I installed the tyrol deadset collar kit I had .5 more camber on one side. Decided not to go camber plates due to nvh/harshness. These were a great compromise. These have seen track time as well and no issues either.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback! I'll probably go with these and just frequently check alignment with my camber gauge.
 
MrFancypants

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
Ronnie_B said:
Just to clarify, spec is a range of numbers, not a singular number. US Camber Spec is -.5° +/- .5°, so a setting of -.9° has the potential of taking away camber from the opposite side. In other words, a setting of -.9° left side / -.4° right side doesn't necessarily mean something is bent, it means that the camber needs to be equalized side to side. (Even though both sides are technically within spec) It's unrealistic to expect -.9° camber on both sides with stock suspension. -.9° is at the far maximum end of the spec range, not "bang on". Make sense?

BTW, all this discussion and I still haven't had anyone chime in about the original question regarding experiences with SuperPro ball joints. :laugh:
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I don't know where you got that number, but I'm pretty sure you're off by half. I also would not accept as much as -.5 off as "fine" any more than I would accept Subaru's claim that a quart of oil consumed every 1k is normal.

To make sure I wasn't crazy I just looked at a half a dozen alignment sheets posted by GTI owners on this subject. The sum of both sides on a healthy car should be roughly -2.0. Add or subtract a tenth or two for worn bushings or key parts like the ball joints, strut tops, or rear position control arm bushing housings being pressed the wrong way against the bolts that secure them in place.

I don't know exactly what your alignment numbers are, maybe it's fine, or maybe you're trying to use expensive aftermarket parts to band-aid a problem. All I'm saying is that if it's off by .5 or more you might want to have a close look. The stock spindles are cast, really weak, and easily bent. Also, that rear position control arm bushing is really sad, even brand new.
 
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