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1.4 TSI Twincharger (160) Stage 1 / 2
- Thread starter blower
- Start date
I didn't think forge actually do a diverter valve for the 1.4 tsi - i know they do recirculation valve kits for the 1.4 and have an adapter for a blow off valve, but i'm personally against blow off's:
I don't like the excessive noise of a blow off, and more importantly they mess with the ecu's expected air flow - the ecu is expecting an increase in air flow from a diverter valve, blowing it off to the atmos will result in some momentary funkiness (fuel trim issues, potential codes thrown over time etc)
The DV+ should be good for the boost pressures i would be looking at, even with a stage 2 - higher boost pressures may work better with just a blow off (but again potentially sacrificing some driveability smoothness).
As for an increase in horse power..hmm, doubt it - unless his stock valve was borked or leaking boost.
Not that it matters much, but i'm also against a massive lump of shiny chrome in my engine bay, i'd rather a more stealth look
I agree with your logic. I would also like to look at data to see changes/improvements.
Do you do data logging via vcds? I'm thinking in this case to log requested boost, actual boost, engine rpm and what gear for the stock dv and then for the gfb DV+.
Any other parameter comes to mind that might be helpful?
Do you do data logging via vcds? I'm thinking in this case to log requested boost, actual boost, engine rpm and what gear for the stock dv and then for the gfb DV+.
Any other parameter comes to mind that might be helpful?
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Ok guys, bit of an update...
As above i went the route of buying used injectors and having them professionally cleaned and tested - or so i thought.
Well in the past couple of weeks after installing the injectors, i noticed the car was harder to start if it was left sitting for more than 10 minutes. It would take more cranks than normal and then stumble for a moment as it started up.
A quick check with VCDS was showing the fuel rail pressure was falling off after shut down - oh dear, not a good sign...fuel pump was fine (and new)...only means one thing, leaking injectors!!
Removed all the spark plugs the next morning and on cylinder 3 an immediate strong smell of petrol - the injector has been leaking when its shut off.
So that meant the 5-6 hour job of getting to the injectors again
Hmm this looks familiar.
The reason i had them tested in the first place was to avoid something like this - so much for the test! - they only leak tested at 3 bar according to the report i got back, yet the injectors and fuel rail runs at 100 bar at idle. :mad0259:
Anyway, no more short cuts - this time i bought brand new VW injectors - 03C906036M, at a cost of £270 for the lot - an amazing price considering they are £200 each from VW.
Whilst fitting them i had another look at the intake valves - the first time round i didn't get a good look as its so hard to see them even with the intake manifold and fuel rail off - you have to practically climb into the engine bay to get your head in position. I managed to get some photo's (shooting blind as again can't see what i'm focusing on)
Fairly coked up - they are going to need a clean and only one way to do that on this engine - walnut shell blasting. It's the only way as you can't remove the intake fixed flaps, and the intake channel runs pretty deep along with the inaccessibility with the intake on the back side of the engine. I'll need to clean them with a media blaster and long nozzle, taking photo's as i go just to see how well the clean is going.
So that's an adventure for another day (soon), have ordered a media blaster hopper anyway.
Now not all the valves were as coked up as this - 2 other cylinders had strangely much cleaner valves, with shiny metal showing through - almost as if something had been spraying on them, burning off the carbon and cleaning them.....
Yep not only were these injectors leaking - the damn spray pattern is way too wide to the point its been cleaning my intake valves!
A word of warning to UK members - i used a company called 'InjectorTune', which said they would return my injectors 'as new', leak tested with spray pattern restored. I asked for a refund when i presented them with the fact one leaks, others spray badly - the guy flat out refused to refund, only offering to retest them. As if i'm going to trust them to clean and test them properly again! Googled their address and its residential house, looks like this operation is run out of a garden shed.
Have tried to get my money back and have got no where, avoid this company at all costs!
Anyway, new injectors in - car runs very smooth (although idle still slightly misses a beat now and then which is common on this engine and probably down to the coked up intake. It's minor and intermittent though, not like a full misfire).
Next on the list will be intake decoke....and as soon as APR do their discount sale it will be remap time
As above i went the route of buying used injectors and having them professionally cleaned and tested - or so i thought.
Well in the past couple of weeks after installing the injectors, i noticed the car was harder to start if it was left sitting for more than 10 minutes. It would take more cranks than normal and then stumble for a moment as it started up.
A quick check with VCDS was showing the fuel rail pressure was falling off after shut down - oh dear, not a good sign...fuel pump was fine (and new)...only means one thing, leaking injectors!!
Removed all the spark plugs the next morning and on cylinder 3 an immediate strong smell of petrol - the injector has been leaking when its shut off.
So that meant the 5-6 hour job of getting to the injectors again
Hmm this looks familiar.
The reason i had them tested in the first place was to avoid something like this - so much for the test! - they only leak tested at 3 bar according to the report i got back, yet the injectors and fuel rail runs at 100 bar at idle. :mad0259:
Anyway, no more short cuts - this time i bought brand new VW injectors - 03C906036M, at a cost of £270 for the lot - an amazing price considering they are £200 each from VW.
Whilst fitting them i had another look at the intake valves - the first time round i didn't get a good look as its so hard to see them even with the intake manifold and fuel rail off - you have to practically climb into the engine bay to get your head in position. I managed to get some photo's (shooting blind as again can't see what i'm focusing on)
Fairly coked up - they are going to need a clean and only one way to do that on this engine - walnut shell blasting. It's the only way as you can't remove the intake fixed flaps, and the intake channel runs pretty deep along with the inaccessibility with the intake on the back side of the engine. I'll need to clean them with a media blaster and long nozzle, taking photo's as i go just to see how well the clean is going.
So that's an adventure for another day (soon), have ordered a media blaster hopper anyway.
Now not all the valves were as coked up as this - 2 other cylinders had strangely much cleaner valves, with shiny metal showing through - almost as if something had been spraying on them, burning off the carbon and cleaning them.....
Yep not only were these injectors leaking - the damn spray pattern is way too wide to the point its been cleaning my intake valves!
A word of warning to UK members - i used a company called 'InjectorTune', which said they would return my injectors 'as new', leak tested with spray pattern restored. I asked for a refund when i presented them with the fact one leaks, others spray badly - the guy flat out refused to refund, only offering to retest them. As if i'm going to trust them to clean and test them properly again! Googled their address and its residential house, looks like this operation is run out of a garden shed.
Have tried to get my money back and have got no where, avoid this company at all costs!
Anyway, new injectors in - car runs very smooth (although idle still slightly misses a beat now and then which is common on this engine and probably down to the coked up intake. It's minor and intermittent though, not like a full misfire).
Next on the list will be intake decoke....and as soon as APR do their discount sale it will be remap time
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Nice update. Not nice on the company but I mean nice details to think about for maintenance. I'm going to check things like fuel rail pressure as a precaution now.
Have you ever encountered a trembling in the car when parked running or in gear 1 and foot on the brakes on an incline? Feels like intermittent rough idling. Very subtle. More so when the car is warming up. Google searches seem to indicate it's fairly common on vw engines but no one seems to know for sure what's causing it. Car runs like a dream when driven though.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58755
Have you ever encountered a trembling in the car when parked running or in gear 1 and foot on the brakes on an incline? Feels like intermittent rough idling. Very subtle. More so when the car is warming up. Google searches seem to indicate it's fairly common on vw engines but no one seems to know for sure what's causing it. Car runs like a dream when driven though.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58755
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Yes i have! - it's exactly what i have been referring to with the 'missing a beat'.
It's done it since i bought the car with 30k miles on it. Although it reduced with the newer 0.7mm gapped sparks, but its still there - as you say its an intermittent rough idle, runs perfectly smooth during driving though.
The little 'judders' you feel are actually the engine and gearbox rocking slightly forward and back and nudging the lower gearbox mount, which is on the subframe right underneath you. When you're on an incline it will always feel worse as that lower mount will have the weight of the engine/gearbox pushing on it and the little judders will transmit more through the subframe and hence the cabin.
It's been bugging me since i've had the car, some days its worse than others. I have had it where it doesn't do it at all..usually after a day of giving it a long run where i been pushing it. I've also noticed its more likely to do it in wet/humid weather.
I've logged with VCDS and there are no misfires being recorded at idle. I've dug through the internet as well, and it seems many TSI engines do it and this 1.4 tsi is no exception.
It's not a full misfire, but what i believe is happening is an intermittent incomplete burn during a power stroke, under low fueling / load conditions (i.e. idle). The coked up intake seems to be pointing to be a cause of this as i've done a 30 minute 'italian tune up' some months ago, and it was perfectly smooth for a week or 2...but then it slowly creeped back in. Humid/wet air being drawn in is also going to contribute to an inefficient burn if its teetering on the edge.
I will do a full walnut shell blast soon, i have the hopper now and am looking to take my car to one of those diy garage places so i can spend an afternoon doing it undercover out of the rain.
I will certainly give you an update on the results and if it sorts out this slightly rough idle.
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Also forgot to mention that if you do work on the car, and disconnect the battery for a while then when you reconnect the battery the ECU needs to relearn fuel trims and various other things to set 'readiness'. During this time i notice it idles perfectly.
So you do a job, connect everything back up and drive round for a while and think hey this has sorted my idle out....but then a day or 2 later its straight back after it has had a chance to relearn everything and set readiness. Whilst it is in this learn state it will be overfueling slightly and also things like the activated charcoal evap system won't be in operation...all which seems to be enough to smooth out the idle (pushing it away from that teetering edge of misfire/incomplete burn)
This is just a little curve ball it throws you and explains why some people who have changed their sparks/coil packs say its solved it, only for some of them to come back and say actually it didn't (for those who bothered to post a further update) - i bet those people pulled the battery before doing the coil packs/spark s etc.
So you do a job, connect everything back up and drive round for a while and think hey this has sorted my idle out....but then a day or 2 later its straight back after it has had a chance to relearn everything and set readiness. Whilst it is in this learn state it will be overfueling slightly and also things like the activated charcoal evap system won't be in operation...all which seems to be enough to smooth out the idle (pushing it away from that teetering edge of misfire/incomplete burn)
This is just a little curve ball it throws you and explains why some people who have changed their sparks/coil packs say its solved it, only for some of them to come back and say actually it didn't (for those who bothered to post a further update) - i bet those people pulled the battery before doing the coil packs/spark s etc.
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Well noticed last night that APR are doing 30% off remaps for Black Friday (at least here in the UK) - so with that I was down to my local APR dealers for the stage 1 I have been waiting for
Couple of hours wait as they were busy, and it was done. Thankfully they didn't have to remove the ECU and were able to do the remap through the OBD port along with applying the map mode switching through the cruise control stalk.
First impressions is I didn't notice much - as I was stuck in Friday rush hour traffic in the pouring rain....but as I approached home theres a stretch of road with no traffic so thought I'd try sports mode for a cheeky quick blurp.....and f**k me I noticed a difference then!
Again have had no chance to play properly yet, but the 2 very short full throttle blasts to 50mph were a massive difference - loads more torque and acceleration, engine sounds a lot meatier.
To be expected going from 240nm to 320nm and 160hp to 210hp (estimated, need to get this dyno'ed....with my mod's I should be pulling that sorta HP according to the APR charts anyway)
Will update more when I have a chance and do a 0-62 time to compare.
Couple of hours wait as they were busy, and it was done. Thankfully they didn't have to remove the ECU and were able to do the remap through the OBD port along with applying the map mode switching through the cruise control stalk.
First impressions is I didn't notice much - as I was stuck in Friday rush hour traffic in the pouring rain....but as I approached home theres a stretch of road with no traffic so thought I'd try sports mode for a cheeky quick blurp.....and f**k me I noticed a difference then!
Again have had no chance to play properly yet, but the 2 very short full throttle blasts to 50mph were a massive difference - loads more torque and acceleration, engine sounds a lot meatier.
To be expected going from 240nm to 320nm and 160hp to 210hp (estimated, need to get this dyno'ed....with my mod's I should be pulling that sorta HP according to the APR charts anyway)
Will update more when I have a chance and do a 0-62 time to compare.
Yeah i'm having great fun, took it out for a blast now its dry'ish and roads empty. So much more power.
Running 98 RON with the 98 map. I'm starting to believe that crazy torque curve that APR have on their latest maps as the power low-mid range is brutal in comparison to what it was. I think i am hitting the torque limiter on the dsg in 1st though - the clutch is not slipping but i can feel it holding the power back until it gets into 2nd then all hell breaks loose. I think it kicks in at 300nm and i'm pulling around 330nm (according to apr anyway).
Speaking of breaking loose, i turned traction control off and attempted a 0-60 run in the damp (safe wide street on back of an industrial estate with nothing about)....wheel span all the way up to 50mph lol, and this is with sticky crossclimates. Will have to try again when its dry as with TCS off its just spinning up like crazy in these conditions.
Loving it though, did a VCDS log with varied driving and plenty of WOT - no misfires so all is good so far.
Got round to doing a 0-60, now its actually been dry for a day.
0-60 5.8s
0-62 (0-100kph) 6.0s
Big improvement over non mapped which previous video under same conditions shows 7.0s for a 0-62.
One issue with the remap is that the throttle is a lot more sensitive - great for when your booting it....not so good when you're trying to move off slowly from a stop. It's hard not to get it to bang in the clutch somewhat as it moves off - its got so much off the line torque.
This is just a an aggravated symptom of the 1.4tsi twincharger DSG throttle response in general - whereby the first 20% of throttle is very non linear in pedal position to power output.
It took me sometime to learn to really feather the throttle when i first got the car - so that it wouldn't lurch off the line. Now there's even more power combined with a reduction in throttle lag its very hard to get a smooth gradual move off the line. It's by no means bad, but it's not as smooth as i would like it to be and what i could do without the remap.
I like the reduced throttle lag - i just don't like the fact that the first 20% is even worse than it was for linearity.
Still i have a solution which i will start working on soon - i'm quite handy with microcontroller stuff so will make a little box that sits between the throttle pedal and the ecu...so i can linearise the response from the damn pedal - i then won't have to move my foot by fractions of a millimeter just to get a small amount of power.
Have been enjoying the extra power though, great fun!
Other things i still want/need to do:
-Custom catch can
-Clean those intake valves!
-GFB DV+
0-60 5.8s
0-62 (0-100kph) 6.0s
Big improvement over non mapped which previous video under same conditions shows 7.0s for a 0-62.
One issue with the remap is that the throttle is a lot more sensitive - great for when your booting it....not so good when you're trying to move off slowly from a stop. It's hard not to get it to bang in the clutch somewhat as it moves off - its got so much off the line torque.
This is just a an aggravated symptom of the 1.4tsi twincharger DSG throttle response in general - whereby the first 20% of throttle is very non linear in pedal position to power output.
It took me sometime to learn to really feather the throttle when i first got the car - so that it wouldn't lurch off the line. Now there's even more power combined with a reduction in throttle lag its very hard to get a smooth gradual move off the line. It's by no means bad, but it's not as smooth as i would like it to be and what i could do without the remap.
I like the reduced throttle lag - i just don't like the fact that the first 20% is even worse than it was for linearity.
Still i have a solution which i will start working on soon - i'm quite handy with microcontroller stuff so will make a little box that sits between the throttle pedal and the ecu...so i can linearise the response from the damn pedal - i then won't have to move my foot by fractions of a millimeter just to get a small amount of power.
Have been enjoying the extra power though, great fun!
Other things i still want/need to do:
-Custom catch can
-Clean those intake valves!
-GFB DV+
They are done on a completely flat straight section of road that's got a fairly coarse surface - so grips well.
Some of the discrepancy is down to using indicated speeds, as all euro cars always show higher than actual speed.
I have measured how far out my speedo is at around 60mph using GPS and its reading about 5% over the real speed - with that in mind, 65mph is the indicated speed i need to be doing for a real speed of 62mph.
I've measured off the video when i hit 65mph indicated, so before the remap my real world 0-62mph time was 7.4 seconds.
The rest of the difference is probably just down to better than average grip off the line and regapped sparks giving a bit more performance. Plus who knows how heavy the driver is in VW's 0-62 tests
Some of the discrepancy is down to using indicated speeds, as all euro cars always show higher than actual speed.
I have measured how far out my speedo is at around 60mph using GPS and its reading about 5% over the real speed - with that in mind, 65mph is the indicated speed i need to be doing for a real speed of 62mph.
I've measured off the video when i hit 65mph indicated, so before the remap my real world 0-62mph time was 7.4 seconds.
The rest of the difference is probably just down to better than average grip off the line and regapped sparks giving a bit more performance. Plus who knows how heavy the driver is in VW's 0-62 tests
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