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New details on 2.0T EA888 Gen 3

Jcap287

Go Kart Champion
I actually disagree with some saying that this car is less performance oriented. It may not come with all the new tech but the basic motor will help tuners produce power out of the motor. Look at the amount of power the A4 makes with a K04 vs the GTI with K04. All that tech doesn't always mean more power.

Again though we won't know until we get the motor to play with

it just means more things that will break haha
 

reelknead1

Go Kart Champion
it just means more things that will break haha

Exactly. I'd give up 10-15hp of a difference on a stage 3 car if it means i don't have to worry about a water pump failure or a timing chain tensioner. Maybe that's just me though. I don't plan on buying a Mk7 so I guess it doesn't matter to me. Hopefully the S3 has a baller engine.
 

mdhollis

Go Kart Champion
We don't need more tech we just need a ttrs minded gti. A 2.5 turbo gti to shut us up then the standard gti for everyone else. I think there would be a huge market for that under 40k
 

Noize

Go Kart Champion
What makes you say that? The full beef Gen 3 is no less "performance oriented" than anything gen 2...its just it looks like the NA market specific version won't be the full beef version....

It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design
 

reelknead1

Go Kart Champion
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design

Those are some good points. I haven't had a chance to read through the PDF as i'm currently working on a wonderful Tax Memo for a client.:barf: I'll have to read through it when I get home.
 

WAP

Go Kart Champion
Guys, according to this from Jayscarblog (the new askavwsalesguy site) the gen 3 1.8L TSI WILL come with both port and DI. He says it's closely related to the new 2.0L GLI/ Beetle Turbo motor. I wonder why the new GTI version would be different...?

See below:



Don’t call it a come back! New 1.8T engine will replace the 2.5 this year
by Jay Pichardo · 0 comments Follow me on Twitter


So long 2.5L engine! Volkswagen has made it official that it will replace the 2.5L engine in the Jetta and Beetle this year. The Passat will get this same engine later on as well. This 3rd generation engine features both port and direct fuel injection for increased efficiency and lower emissions. This engine is closely related to the 2.0T version we will see in the next GLI and Beetle Turbo later in the year. This engine is in no way, shape or form related to the old 20V 1.8T engine from the 4th gen GTI.

If you are interested in learning more about this new 1.8T engine you can read the technical sheet we have posted Here and Here.
 

KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
why the fuq would they take variable valve timing out???

that is just astronomically stupid.
 

KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design

Length of stroke does not affect your ability to rev. Long stroke with a short rod ratio from a low deck height is what prevents revs. As long as there is sufficient deck height to accommodate a long rod to stroke ratio you will be able to rev the piss out of it. What you dont want is to have a long stroke with short rods, exacerbating the angle of the rod from the piston wrist pin to the crank, making relative rod speed too high. And even then you dont need to worry about this stuff until north of 8 grand, which you will never ever rev that car to anyway.

removing the manifold and mounting the turbo right to the heads is profit.
 
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ErBall

Measurement Mogul
Just skimming through this, a few things I've noticed.

  • Turbo is not integrated into manifold. Manifold is integrated into the head. Should facilitate easier turbo swaps.

  • Turbo looks to be twin-scroll, could be wrong, but it sure looks it

  • Port and DI

  • Crankshaft looks pretty weak in comparison to both TSI and FSI crank
 

Halvie

WOOSA
Length of stroke does not affect your ability to rev. Long stroke with a short rod ratio from a low deck height is what prevents revs.

removing the manifold and mounting the turbo right to the heads is profit.

Have heard from a couple people the reason we aren't seeing tuners raise the limit on tunes has to do with the hpfp. Something about the number of lobes on it I think.

APR posted a long time ago about some easy big hp turbo swap on the new motor. Maybe they could jump in with some info.
 

Noize

Go Kart Champion
Length of stroke does not affect your ability to rev. Long stroke with a short rod ratio from a low deck height is what prevents revs.

removing the manifold and mounting the turbo right to the heads is profit.

It's undersquare. Show me a stock internalled EA888 that'll spin to close to 8000rpm.

Mounting the turbo to the head is profit for spool, but fail for simple aftermarket turbocharger options.
 
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KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
It's undersquare. Show me a stock internalled EA888 that'll spin to close to 8000rpm.

A stock internal one wont, but not for stroke issues. You could upgrade your bottom end and valve train and cams and turbo, and make power to 8 grand and the motor will spin to that just fine. The reason you wont make power to 8 grand is because you'll never run a set up or have software that will allow you to push the motor that hard, unless you get custom tuned, which the vast majority of people dont.

It has nothing to do with the bore to stroke ratio, or whether or not its square or undersquare. Its the rod length to stroke ratio, which is determined by sufficient or insufficient deck height to maintain a long enough rod to accommodate the stroke, keeping the angle of the rod at the 3 and 9 oclock position at or under a certain angle.

Between the two of us, Ive built motors.
 

TheCastle

Ready to race!
Have heard from a couple people the reason we aren't seeing tuners raise the limit on tunes has to do with the hpfp. Something about the number of lobes on it I think.

APR posted a long time ago about some easy big hp turbo swap on the new motor. Maybe they could jump in with some info.

When I went to the APR BBQ last October Joel had a whole presentation on the EA888 Gen 3 motors and some of the major architectural changes. I can confirm that he said the new engines should be cheaper to add big turbos too. He mentioned that the exhaust manifold is a very expensive piece to replace. With the new one being integrated into the head and water jacketed they won't replace it when we do a turbo swap saving $$$$. Also since the new exhaust manifold is water jacketed it should help keep EGTs under control more easily opening new tuning possibilities.

Guys, according to this from Jayscarblog (the new askavwsalesguy site) the gen 3 1.8L TSI WILL come with both port and DI. He says it's closely related to the new 2.0L GLI/ Beetle Turbo motor. I wonder why the new GTI version would be different...?

Jay didn't know, he was just looking at the Gen 3 EA888 1.8t specs. ITs clear from VW's latest literature that the Gen 3 TSI's will be made in mexico for north america and they are coming with a possibly a different configuration than what other car lines may get.

Originally Posted by RacingManiac
Golf R has EA113. Which was the engine MK5 GTI comes with, but with K04 instead of K03, among other things. I don't actually know why the new EA888 is a gen 3 though? Is the MK6 GTI 2.0T Gen 1 or Gen 2?

i think ours is Gen 2, they have a EA888 1.8T one before the 2.0T

Actually the MK6 GTI and its cousins GLI/Beetle/A3 all have the EA888 generation 1 engine. The EA888 Gen 2 engine was an Audi exclusive and it features valvetronic. Lots of places you can find this info, but here is a good summary from arin.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5462507-Any-reason-why-Audi-doesn-t-use-the-TSI-engine
 

mdhollis

Go Kart Champion
When I went to the APR BBQ last October Joel had a whole presentation on the EA888 Gen 3 motors and some of the major architectural changes. I can confirm that he said the new engines should be cheaper to add big turbos too. He mentioned that the exhaust manifold is a very expensive piece to replace. With the new one being integrated into the head and water jacketed they won't replace it when we do a turbo swap saving $$$$. Also since the new exhaust manifold is water jacketed it should help keep EGTs under control more easily opening new tuning possibilities.

Wouldn't there be a limit to what they could do with it though? I mean the big turbo setups now replace the manifold, making it more expensive yes, but they replace it with a far superior manifold with better flow. Just seems like it will be one more thing that will annoy people looking for big hp.
 

Halvie

WOOSA
When I went to the APR BBQ last October Joel had a whole presentation on the EA888 Gen 3 motors and some of the major architectural changes. I can confirm that he said the new engines should be cheaper to add big turbos too. He mentioned that the exhaust manifold is a very expensive piece to replace. With the new one being integrated into the head and water jacketed they won't replace it when we do a turbo swap saving $$$$. Also since the new exhaust manifold is water jacketed it should help keep EGTs under control more easily opening new tuning possibilities.

Heard that too, but have to wonder when you see APR talk about the limits the manifold places on stuff like the loba turbos. Would that not hold true because of the water jacket?

Or even stuff about the gtx3076 wheel flowing too much for its turbine wheel. Wouldn't the stock built in manifold pose a similar restriction?
 
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