Motodude310
Go Kart Champion
That is completely coincidental.
6
S3 FMIC VS APR IC in K04
- Thread starter kakluote
- Start date
XGC75
Go Kart Champion
Something I want to mention here - power is correlated with flow rate, not boost levels. Boost is just a measure of how much shit is in the way. For instance the S3 would read higher boost per HP than the APR because it doesn't flow as well as the Apr.
Yeah I agree that's pretty coincidental. You could feasibly have misfires sue to air that is way too cold to spark, but you'd be way beyond the difference that you would get between two IC's even at high rpm and full throttle.
i don't see how this correleates to pressure drop. are you saying both run the same inlet pressure but a bigger ic drops that much boost at the outlet?
Correct
0.2 bar lower see from logs and gauge
I cant see, can only see intake pressure,by gauge or vagcom,how can see it
Pressure and temperature are directly proportional, cool the intake charge and pressure will be reduced. However this is not referred to as "intercooler pressure drop". Intercooler pressure drop is the measure of intercooler restriction, internal friction which equates to poor flow. Intercooler pressure drop is measured without taking into effect the intercoolers cooling characteristics. Put x pressure in and measure x pressure out at the same temp, the drop is the measure of its restriction.
There is no engineering justification from a performance stand point for sandwiching the intercooler. Rule #1 for a good intercooler is its ducting, the ability for it to accept air and discharge air. By having other "radiators" on the front side and back side impedes this greatly. Next the size of the intercooler is of outmost importance. An intercooler with more mass is better then one with less(everything else =), as it has more heat sinking ability. To big and yes you will suffer increased lag/throttle response, but there is a sweet spot for each application.
A true FMIC is going to be superior, air is cleanly directed in and out. VW did not design our setup with upmost performance in mind. They designed a system to work with a turbo working in its efficiency range to produce 200hp and at the lowest cost possible. Works just fine on a stock car and that was their intention. To say they had tuned cars in mind with this design is completely false. Truth is they were more concerned with the efficiency of the AC condenser then they were the intercooler, as is 98% of the public that bought these cars.
There is no engineering justification from a performance stand point for sandwiching the intercooler. Rule #1 for a good intercooler is its ducting, the ability for it to accept air and discharge air. By having other "radiators" on the front side and back side impedes this greatly. Next the size of the intercooler is of outmost importance. An intercooler with more mass is better then one with less(everything else =), as it has more heat sinking ability. To big and yes you will suffer increased lag/throttle response, but there is a sweet spot for each application.
A true FMIC is going to be superior, air is cleanly directed in and out. VW did not design our setup with upmost performance in mind. They designed a system to work with a turbo working in its efficiency range to produce 200hp and at the lowest cost possible. Works just fine on a stock car and that was their intention. To say they had tuned cars in mind with this design is completely false. Truth is they were more concerned with the efficiency of the AC condenser then they were the intercooler, as is 98% of the public that bought these cars.
Thats not necessarily true. A good big intercooler has wider less restrictive bars and thererfore will have less restriction. What easier to blow thru, a small juice box straw or a garden hose?
I agree with this^ however, in the same sense, the difference you get from fmic vice middlemount at only 100 hp +- 50 over the stock 200 hp, isn't that probably negligible? Feel free to comment back
XGC75
Go Kart Champion
The problem is that there's no space to for the necessary core in the front-mount configuration. It's got to be too deep to be as efficient as the SMIC and though it gets substantially worse with higher power rating cores, you're still running a sub-optimal core at lower power levels.
I think the guy you quoted was being misleading by not mentioning the space constraints. He says that sandwiching is not best for efficiency of the core, which is correct in isolation. But you can't maintain the dimensions of the stock core in front of the radiator, which is important at any power level considering the trade off is throttle response.
Ok, but with that argument, what are some examples of tuner cars where this WOULDN'T be the case? I'm just curious as to why there is such an argument for which type is better, if the performance diff isn't even 1. Relevant and 2. an actual comparison of something that can be gained on the mk6. The way I see it, each type gives you a diff set of pros and cons. So... what? Lol its just a popularity contest??
my argument is that the difference is negligble. i'm not saying the sandwich core is better, but a quarter size front mount is not going to show gains over it. also airflow throught he intercooler is not reduced due to the condenser. it barely even covers the fins. but the airflow must be disrupted to optimize cooling, as is the reason for staggered fins. so it all works together.
if anything the true front mount would improve radiator temps. but nobody seems concerned about that.
XGC75
Go Kart Champion
It's pretty much a popularity contest. The guys arguing in favor of of FMICs either have one already or have bought them in the past. The guys in favor of SMICs have one already.
I'm just trying to keep the record straight. Not going to stand idly by while someone uses street logic and fairy dust to argue in favor of one over the other when there are sound engineering principals behind the stock and aftermarket designs.
If you care about intake temps when the car is stationary and doing a pull on a dyno then go cut up your bumper bar to install a "600hp" FMIC. If you care about daily drivability, throttle response, top-end power or if you want to keep the car from overheating on the track then your best bet is to stick with the OEM sandwich layout.