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Single mass fly wheel back to a dual mass?

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
Get yours in yet APdubbin? I'm closer to 400 miles now and engagement has moved down a bit from the top of the pedal where it was. Seems to be getting a bit grippier now too. I'm liking it more and more so far. Can't wait to be through the break in process so I can get back on the 93 octane Stage III tune and give it a good flogging. Definitely taking it slow though so far.

--Matt
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
No buddy. I actually just had a unexpected issue with the car. My belt tensioner clips broke, causing a misalignment of the belt. So I just got my car back. Now I have to do the clutch on top of that ��
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
Ouch, sorry to hear that. Hope everything goes more smoothly for you.

I've certainly noticed that engagement has gotten a bit noisier as this disc breaks in. The sprung hub on my prior setup seems to have done its job in that area, but the extra noise is hardly a problem.

--Matt
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
Refresh my memory again, did you go DMFW or SMFW
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
I've got my original stock DMFW.

--Matt
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
Well, that first disc ended up not working out. I've got a new one (sprung hub and new material this time) that seems to be doing better though!

--Matt
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
A heads up for anyone looking to do the set up that I am doing. My car is currently at GRD tuned shop in West Chicago with the clutch kit from sachs that is meant to be paired with the OEM flywheel. According to the mechanic, the two will fit, however the clutch kit from Sachs is a non-sprung pressure plate that "should not be paired with a dual mass flywheel". He doesn't recommend the pair to go together because of possible future problems down the road, however I am forced to do it anyways because I have no other options. Sachs stands steady, saying that the two are compatible and there should be no problems. So I don't know who to believe, Sachs or the mechanic. I will be putting it on regardless and I will keep this thread posted on my progress.
Just letting everyone know to be cautious when buying the set up that I have.
 

intellistar

Ready to race!
I am assuming he means "non-sprung clutch disc," but I don't think it's completely black and white. One of the reasons for the springs on a clutch disc is to dampen the power pulses from the engine firing. With a dual-mass flywheel, the springs on the flywheel itself along with the heavier mass help dampen said pulses. This why dual mass flywheels are typically paired with either solid discs or discs with smaller springs, since most of the dampening is handled by the flywheel.

On a single mass flywheel setup, the lack of mass and springs to absorb the vibration do not dampen the pulses as well (which results in drivetrain noise). This is why the "correct" pairing is generally with a disc that has pretty substantial springs to help dampen the pulses.

Regarding reliability, the more pulses that get through to your transmission, the higher likelihood of causing wear on the transmission. At the same time, the benefit of running a rigid disc tends to be higher clamping loads (with friction material also playing a part) and lower rotational inertia. So it's a bit of a balancing act.
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
Yes sorry, I misspoke, non-sprung clutch disc.
So from your opinion, you think it shouldn't be an issue? The mechanic told me he doesn't recommend it and that he's seen problems arise with the "flywheel being torn apart"... Not sure what that means or why that would happen. But he got me worried.
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
Also side note, the original flywheel that came with the car was driven for only 36k miles. To reuse it with the current set up, they needed to refinish it, or "turn it" as they put it. Just an fyi, if anyones looking to use their original dual mass flywheel.
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
I had some extra axial play on my DMF when that first disc came out that wasn't there previously. We ended up putting in a new DMF with the new clutch disc that's in there now (which I don't think I can yet disclose the source of, but is full face feramic and excellent).

--Matt
 

intellistar

Ready to race!
->APdubbin
I think it will introduce additional wear over the OEM design, but I don't think it's an "incorrect" setup. If I were to go back to a DMF setup, I would use the rigid disc as well. I believe that the South Bend Drop-In Disc people have been using is also a rigid disc. Obviously, it's a costly part/install though, so I don't think I'm the one to make that call for you. If you trust your mechanic, it may be good to take his real world advice and go with a setup/brand he recommends. But the theory is: SMF + sprung hub; DMF + rigid disc.

->Matt
Since you had a similar setup prior (OEM DMFW + Sachs Rigid Clutch), can you say what the problem was that caused the switch?
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
I had major slipping problems with the Sachs disk and the PP I had. ~10-12psi and it would just let go. I gave it ~1100miles and it was a no go. Same type of PP with the feramic setup is golden and the pedal is nice and light for DD.

--Matt
 

APdubbin

Ready to race!
So Matt...
You did the same exact setup I'm trying currently?
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
Nope. My tuning shop sourced the disc from Sachs Racing and paired it with their preferred PP. It wasn't from that site and I don't know what the part number (if there even was one) was. Neither that setup, nor my current one, are available off the shelf at the moment. The current disc is custom and didn't come from Sachs. I wanted a lighter pedal and DMF since my car is a daily driver, so I wasn't really finding what I wanted off the shelf.

Plenty of other folks have had good luck with the SRE disc when paired with the SRE PP. Others haven't had such good luck. It seems like the most common cause of issues with their setup is improper installation though. If the disc is installed backwards you'll definitely have issues. The other point I found again and again in reviews from the 8P crowd is that it needs a solid 1000miles of break in.

--Matt
 
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