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TICKET ALERT! TRIAL BY DECLARATION FIGHT!

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pdykstra600

Go Kart Champion
Agrippa said:
Aren't traffic tickets strict liability? I don't think you are best served by arguing that 80mph is actually safe.
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In most states, yes, speed limits are absolute (per se). Arguing that 80 in a 70 was safe for the conditions would mean that you are guilty of speeding, because the 70 mph limit is set by statute and you are automatically guilty if you go over it, even if you were driving safely.

There are some states that have prima facie speed limits. In those jurisdictions, you can actually argue that your speed was safe for the conditions even though you were driving over the limit. If you could successfully show that your speed was safe, you would be not guilty of speeding.

No idea what the rules are in California, but you'd better find out before you send in that letter.
 
McQueen77

McQueen77

Banned
in your case, if you were speeding, its kind of hard to fight, but worth it in that they might reduce your fine and at least give you traffic school. even though you were technically speeding, i just think your # came up and you have bad luck because most cars easily average 80mph+ on that freeway you were on (i know it well). i got a speeding ticket like that on the I-5 north once, middle of nowhere, 9 oclock at night doing like 78. No cars for a million miles. 8 miles over?? Sometimes you just get screwed. Id still say fight it, but dont plead not guilty. When you plead guilty in a court situation they usually reduce your fine and give you traffic school. No reason to just bend over and give them the full amount. guys saying 'man up and take responsibility' are the kind of people the city etc. counts on to keep funneling that money in. Just bend over and take it? Nah. At least get it reduced.

Sometimes cops draw your number and harass you. Happened to my wife with a seatbelt ticket in chinatown. Chinatown is full of rookie cops getting their wings as its right by the academy. We were in the car, lights came on behind us, we pulled over. They told her they were writing her up for not wearing a seatbelt. She had it on. She never drives without it. Literally got randomly picked, pulled over and fucked with. It was a senior officer and a rookie and the sergeant kept instructing the rookie what to say/do. It was like a test or something. She had the thing on and they basically pulled its 'our word against yours'. She fought it, we went to court, the officer didnt show and it got dismissed. Sounds like your case wasn't so extreme, but anyway.
 
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DaveSTR

DaveSTR

Go Kart Champion
THANK GOD im in Germany.I do not miss the BS that is driving in the US particularly this crap. I get a camera flash for 10kilometers over its 0 points and maybe 15euros. Nice. No cop no f'n lecture and no harrassment via the insurance company.
Speeding in the US is just a nice money maker for a city and county government. Roads are well designed and decently maintained but you are better off owning a Smart car there. When and if I come back the GTI will have zero mods. Not worth it at all in the US.

Here in Germany i can use both my cars as designed. In the US you should ride the bus or ride your bike. Its not worth it anymore. I will sell my 370Z before I come back as well. I will buy a track car for just that purpose. Germany is the only country left where drivers are trained and roads are available to get somewhere if you feel like using the power you have and burning the gas when you enter speed free zone on the Autobahn.

All of you are modding your cars and making the tuning companies rich for what? Another ticket? Save your cash for cool travel and good electronics. If you want to speed learn to fly.

The last time I was in the US I rented a car and put that bitch on cruise control at 5 over the limit. The last thing I will ever do is pay a county or city to tell me Im dangerous at 10 over on a clear day/night on a straight road. In Germany in the same conditions Im doing 120+ and guess what. After 20mins Im bored.

You get so used to the speed after years of doing it 100 is nothing anymore. In the US you think you are going somewhere doing 80 and the law says you are a criminal. Until drivers take the roads back and get laws passed demanding good trained drivers then speed limits in certain areas to be raised or unlimited you take your chances and dream of beating a ticket. What a life!
 
Djmikeyd

Djmikeyd

Go Kart Champion
DaveSTR said:
THANK GOD im in Germany.I do not miss the BS that is driving in the US particularly this crap. I get a camera flash for 10kilometers over its 0 points and maybe 15euros. Nice. No cop no f'n lecture and no harrassment via the insurance company.
Speeding in the US is just a nice money maker for a city and county government. Roads are well designed and decently maintained but you are better off owning a Smart car there. When and if I come back the GTI will have zero mods. Not worth it at all in the US.

Here in Germany i can use both my cars as designed. In the US you should ride the bus or ride your bike. Its not worth it anymore. I will sell my 370Z before I come back as well. I will buy a track car for just that purpose. Germany is the only country left where drivers are trained and roads are available to get somewhere if you feel like using the power you have and burning the gas when you enter speed free zone on the Autobahn.

All of you are modding your cars and making the tuning companies rich for what? Another ticket? Save your cash for cool travel and good electronics. If you want to speed learn to fly.

The last time I was in the US I rented a car and put that bitch on cruise control at 5 over the limit. The last thing I will ever do is pay a county or city to tell me Im dangerous at 10 over on a clear day/night on a straight road. In Germany in the same conditions Im doing 120+ and guess what. After 20mins Im bored.

You get so used to the speed after years of doing it 100 is nothing anymore. In the US you think you are going somewhere doing 80 and the law says you are a criminal. Until drivers take the roads back and get laws passed demanding good trained drivers then speed limits in certain areas to be raised or unlimited you take your chances and dream of beating a ticket. What a life!
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THIS
 
P

PandaGTI

Go Kart Champion
The fact that you didnt cause a scene when the officer pulled you over works to your advantage because they officer won't think to remember your case specifically. Which means he will forget e details of the case.

1) keep postponing the court date
2) when you finally do show up to court hopefully he will forget to show up especially since yor case doesn't stick out in his memory
3) if he does show up... He got you with LIDAR so there is time it takes for the officer to get back in his car and accelerate to catch up to you... And it was night time... So there is lots of opportunity to prove reasaonablendoubt with the LEO
4) see if there are bends in the road, dips where the LEO would loose sight for a brief second, bring pictures of your GTI, a TDI, and a regular 2.5 golf as well as MKV's and other off band cars that are similar in shape and color... Hve him pick out your car

If you can prove reasonable doubt you win...
 
M

mkeath

Passed Driver's Ed
DaveSTR said:
THANK GOD im in Germany.I do not miss the BS that is driving in the US particularly this crap. I get a camera flash for 10kilometers over its 0 points and maybe 15euros. Nice. No cop no f'n lecture and no harrassment via the insurance company.
Speeding in the US is just a nice money maker for a city and county government. Roads are well designed and decently maintained but you are better off owning a Smart car there. When and if I come back the GTI will have zero mods. Not worth it at all in the US.

Here in Germany i can use both my cars as designed. In the US you should ride the bus or ride your bike. Its not worth it anymore. I will sell my 370Z before I come back as well. I will buy a track car for just that purpose. Germany is the only country left where drivers are trained and roads are available to get somewhere if you feel like using the power you have and burning the gas when you enter speed free zone on the Autobahn.

All of you are modding your cars and making the tuning companies rich for what? Another ticket? Save your cash for cool travel and good electronics. If you want to speed learn to fly.

The last time I was in the US I rented a car and put that bitch on cruise control at 5 over the limit. The last thing I will ever do is pay a county or city to tell me Im dangerous at 10 over on a clear day/night on a straight road. In Germany in the same conditions Im doing 120+ and guess what. After 20mins Im bored.

You get so used to the speed after years of doing it 100 is nothing anymore. In the US you think you are going somewhere doing 80 and the law says you are a criminal. Until drivers take the roads back and get laws passed demanding good trained drivers then speed limits in certain areas to be raised or unlimited you take your chances and dream of beating a ticket. What a life!
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Some people want a daily driver and something to take to the tracks. Nothing wrong with having one car fulfilling both. I am jealous of German traffic laws though.
 
DaveSTR

DaveSTR

Go Kart Champion
mkeath said:
Some people want a daily driver and something to take to the tracks. Nothing wrong with having one car fulfilling both. I am jealous of German traffic laws though.
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Yes you can certainly have both. I will look into that later but for the most part with accuracy and laws tightening even 8mph over the limit now makes you some type of public threat. Its absurd.

Germany has it right. Expensive to get a license and the test is a bitch. Alot of people fail the first time and you do not get one until you are 18. Winter tires are mandatory - if you are in an accident without them your insurance is gone. Speeding is not a hassle like it is in the US. People here know how to drive. Ive had to wait more than once to check and fill my tires with air.

People actually do that here as a habit. Its inspiring to see really young drivers doing it. Old people here might just push you out of the speed lane here in their Audi wagons or 911's etc. Its humbling. People love driving and respect the time to really speed in the right conditions. Fuel is expensive so it does cost you!
 
M

mkeath

Passed Driver's Ed
DaveSTR said:
Yes you can certainly have both. I will look into that later but for the most part with accuracy and laws tightening even 8mph over the limit now makes you some type of public threat. Its absurd.

Germany has it right. Expensive to get a license and the test is a bitch. Alot of people fail the first time and you do not get one until you are 18. Winter tires are mandatory - if you are in an accident without them your insurance is gone. Speeding is not a hassle like it is in the US. People here know how to drive. Ive had to wait more than once to check and fill my tires with air.

People actually do that here as a habit. Its inspiring to see really young drivers doing it. Old people here might just push you out of the speed lane here in their Audi wagons or 911's etc. Its humbling. People love driving and respect the time to really speed in the right conditions. Fuel is expensive so it does cost you!
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Well it's not quite as simple as just changing the law. That system may work very well in Germany, and I admit that I think it's far superior, but the United States is vastly different curlturally. A lot of people aren't all that concerned about their cars or going fast. Given that, there is a lot of merit to the US's current traffic laws.
 
tmiw

tmiw

Go Kart Champion
mkeath said:
Well it's not quite as simple as just changing the law. That system may work very well in Germany, and I admit that I think it's far superior, but the United States is vastly different curlturally. A lot of people aren't all that concerned about their cars or going fast. Given that, there is a lot of merit to the US's current traffic laws.
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And most roads here are pretty much horrible too (in terms of maintenance and the like). As much as we want to be able to go fast, it's just not that safe on a lot of them. :(
 
M

mkeath

Passed Driver's Ed
tmiw said:
And most roads here are pretty much horrible too (in terms of maintenance and the like). As much as we want to be able to go fast, it's just not that safe on a lot of them. :(
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I don't know what California's like, but the roads aren't bad in Texas for the most part. Well, at least the highways aren't.
 
tmiw

tmiw

Go Kart Champion
mkeath said:
I don't know what California's like, but the roads aren't bad in Texas for the most part. Well, at least the highways aren't.
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Yeah, the freeways are definitely in better shape than roads in cities. Luckily there's some new freeway construction here that opened recently so it's pretty good.
 
D

dwagner88

Ready to race!
Your argument is that going 80 was safe. This is irrelevant because the speed limit was 70. It doesn't matter how much SAT vocab you put in the letter. Being intelligent does not mean you don't have to drive the speed limit.
 
McQueen77

McQueen77

Banned
CA roads are the worst, at least, so cal anyway unless you are lucky enough to live in parts of orange county. l.a. though, its 3rd world. makes the GTI a less than comfortable DD sometimes.
 
Cackalacka

Cackalacka

Ready to race!
TL, DR

Points involved? Lawyer up. The $40-250 will pay for itself within months after insurance gets wind of it.

The only place where letters help are in camera tickets (I got out of one a year ago by annotating the picture, and writing a brief note explaining the level of uncertainty. The note to the appeals process was shorter than this post I'm writing here.)

First rule of the written word: know your audience. All your Faulkneresque prose will do, is piss off the audience. In this case (as in most) you want the audience to be your friend.
 
Carbon Steel

Carbon Steel

Go Kart Champion
Bottom line, your letter is meaningless, unless you mean to piss off the judge. Your letter has an air of smart ass, and loaded with BS.

Speed limit 70, your speed 80, guilty, in some states 80 and above is reckless, yours is only written for a speed violation.

Now, if you have a good driving record, then plead guilty but request Driving School, it will cost you about 50 dollars, you can do it on line and your violation will voided, no record, no insurance implications.

You stated you were polite, cooperative etc., that is meaningful and with a good record will help you get driving school.

If you don't have a good record, well then Bend over.

Good luck and slow down.
 
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