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Brakes still suck

PandaGTI

Go Kart Champion
I changed out my brake lines to SS lines, changed the pads to StopTech pads, changed the fluid to ATE blue, and changed the brake setting via VAGCOM to 'setting 2' and my brakes are still crappy IMO. I was hoping to retain stock brakes for weight saving purposes, but I don't think that'll be an option anymore. What are some cheaper BK kits? Just the Golf R/R32 brake kit? Thanks in advance.

Did you have the old pad material cleaned off the rotors? If not then you wouldn't feel too much of a difference until the new pad material cleans the old material off and transfer to it.

So essentially you are still braking with the old pads since it is still on your rotor...
 

RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
Exactly. I've skimmed through the discussions about it about a year ago and the logic makes sense. Managed to do some calculations of my own and came to the same conclusion. That is why I've wanted to stick to a 4pot setup.

Not sure how the EBD in modern braking system factor into here? I think modified cars did an article on this...
 

Deaks2

Ready to race!

GP813

Ready to race!
Careful here...Read the threads carefully. If you go to the 6 pots you really need to spend the extra $1000 to upsize the rears to maintain a safe F/R brake bias...This requires a bunch of custom parts from the guy who pioneered this conversion.

Just wanted to point out that VWR's "specially tailored" BBK for the MK6 is a 6 pot setup on 352mm rotors. Ive read as much material as i could about them and theres no real mention of messing up the brake bias or any other upgrades needed on top of what they have in the kit.

People say 6 pot is overkill but why would they (being Volkswagen racing) have chosen this route in their design. Is it something that should truly be restricted for track use?

Quote
"A great deal of development has gone into establishing the best piston diameters to suit the Golf and Scirocco platform’s braking system and servo assistance. We are very pleased that we have found the optimum sizes to give maximum braking response without being too over-servoed, or ‘grabby’ – a common problem on brake hardware that has been developed generically, rather than for a specific application such as this one."

http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-front-big-brake-kit-18/

After KO4 I was seriously looking into the VWR BBK as the next upgrade on my GTI.

Edit: They make pads (i guess i should say rebadge) for stock brakes too:
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-fast-road-front-brake-pads-6/
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-fast-road-rear-brake-pads-6/

I may try those in combination with SS brake lines and the tyrol bushings before going BBK.
 

crew219

Banned
Just wanted to point out that VWR's "specially tailored" BBK for the MK6 is a 6 pot setup on 352mm rotors. Ive read as much material as i could about them and theres no real mention of messing up the brake bias or any other upgrades needed on top of what they have in the kit.

People say 6 pot is overkill but why would they (being Volkswagen racing) have chosen this route in their design. Is it something that should truly be restricted for track use?

Quote
"A great deal of development has gone into establishing the best piston diameters to suit the Golf and Scirocco platform’s braking system and servo assistance. We are very pleased that we have found the optimum sizes to give maximum braking response without being too over-servoed, or ‘grabby’ – a common problem on brake hardware that has been developed generically, rather than for a specific application such as this one."

http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-front-big-brake-kit-18/

After KO4 I was seriously looking into the VWR BBK as the next upgrade on my GTI.

Edit: They make pads (i guess i should say rebadge) for stock brakes too:
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-fast-road-front-brake-pads-6/
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/parts/vwr-fast-road-rear-brake-pads-6/

I may try those in combination with SS brake lines and the tyrol bushings before going BBK.

It all depends on what size pistons they chose for the application.
 

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie
So I am now thinking that the Boxster upgrade makes more sense because a cheap rear brake upgrade is all but non-existant for these cars.

just do slotted rotors and upgrade the pads in the rear, along with ss lines.
 

GP813

Ready to race!
It all depends on what size pistons they chose for the application.

Yeah i figured as much, could it be a progressive size just like the 6 pot porsche upgrade? Guess id have to call VWR or APR to find out
 

Deaks2

Ready to race!
just do slotted rotors and upgrade the pads in the rear, along with ss lines.
Yeah.

However, I remember seeing either on this forum or on MkV a profile photo of a VWR prepped car and it had the 6-pot brakes up front but stock GTI brakes in the rear. If I recall it was a spec series in Germany and all the cars were configured like this...
 

TXBDan

Go Kart Champion
I'm pretty sure our handy dandy fancy ABS computer modulates and handles bias dynamically...
 

Modshack1

Go Kart Champion
VWR prepped car and it had the 6-pot brakes up front but stock GTI brakes in the rear. If I recall it was a spec series in Germany and all the cars were configured like this...


A "spec" car likely has all kinds of custom stuff going on to make that work..

I'm pretty sure our handy dandy fancy ABS computer modulates and handles bias dynamically...

No..Bias is controlled by hydraulics and line pressures matched to the front and rear braking capabilities..You could have your front brakes locking and triggering ABS if they overpower the car, while still having the rears rolling along merrily if things aren't matched well. It's all covered in the Cayenne conversion threads.. Dynamically the car would be touchy.
 

staynhome29

Ready to race!
I'm pretty sure our handy dandy fancy ABS computer modulates and handles bias dynamically...

I don't think the ecu does that in our car.

Typically in fwd, whether you have bbk or not, the brake balancing is determined mainly by pad compound. Typically in a nose heavy fwd car, you want a more aggressive pad in front and slightly less in rear. Also you need proper tires to handle the increased braking torque or your brakes will overpower the car.

Excellent set up is Carbotech XP10 (F) and Carbotech XP8 (R). Works will with R Comps as well as Starspecs, AD08, RS3, RE11 or the likes.

Having a BBK doesn't make you brake harder. That is a myth. What it does is it gives you a larger 2 piece rotor for better heat dissipation and a stiffer caliper for consistent stiff pedal feel. Also it reduces unsprung mass of your brake system by upwards of 15 lbs a corner which is a huge amount of unsprung weight. If you want to know what 15 lbs a corner feels like, compare your stock detroits to a lightweight OZ/Enkei/Volk/BBS wheel.

BBK to cure fade.
Pads to stop your car faster
Tires to make it all come together.
 

RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
No..Bias is controlled by hydraulics and line pressures matched to the front and rear braking capabilities..You could have your front brakes locking and triggering ABS if they overpower the car, while still having the rears rolling along merrily if things aren't matched well. It's all covered in the Cayenne conversion threads.. Dynamically the car would be touchy.

http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0606_sccp_2005_scion_tc/viewall.html

Halfway down the page...

EBD will proportion the line pressure to each caliper based on the available stopping power though....


Reining the thread back a bit though, OP still need to make sure he actually have a properly working system as is before he jump to any upgrade to cure his "fade".
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
OP - bleed your brakes. You have air in your lines.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

First repair faults before you start modding !!
 

TXBDan

Go Kart Champion
Yeah...EBD likely throws some new wrinkles into the equation...

Exactly, MK6s have BA and EBD. How do you think we get away with such high initial rear bias yet don't have GTIs spinning off every other on ramp?
 
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