POLL: Can you drive stick?

mikent256 said:

/thread.

Driving a manual in the city is just hellish. You're bound to get royally screwed by traffic/ignorant drivers no matter what, your passengers are bound to hate the ride (rocking back and forth through gear changes). It's really just an enthusiast feature that's best for a true sports car in open roads.

For anything else... there's DSG.

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While I agree it can be hellish, the bolded statement seems silly, esp coming from a guy who drives a Speed3.. But ok, tell that to like 95% of drivers in Europe who drive their MT equipped cars in hellish traffic every day (ever been to Rome? Munich? London?) and wouldn't trade their manuals in for anything. Maybe I'm just used to it after over a decade of it but I drive my car w/ a stick in LA every day and it doesn't bother me that much. Sure it gets tedious, but it also gets tedious having to ride your brake in a car that is in 'D' and wants to creep forward on its own all the time. Talk about annoying. Anything having to do with traffic blows. Even in LA, there is at least 50% of the time that I get to drive at cruising and highway speeds without much traffic and always make time to get out the all the deserted backroads near bye. Thats the part of town I live though. If i were trapped in the grid around like Fairfax and Melrose, it might get pretty old pretty fast.

I actually find the more active participant nature of driving a manual lends itself to a safer driving experience. Because you know you need to anticipate, you do just that...

You find yourself more situationally aware than you would just being a passenger with two pedals. I guess because of the fact that you have to plan your gearshifts, even on a relatively muscle memory sort of level, you are also looking ahead enough to be better prepared for hazards in general, especially cars driven by passengers with two pedals.

mikent256 said:

Torque Mount inserts worked opposite for me. Keeps the engine in place, less forgiving, rpms drop almost instantly because motor is in place. At least with the softer mount, the rpms can float a tad to give you some gimmie room.

I can drive in any situation comfortable in an auto. I am able to concentrate and focus on what matters. Instead, driving a manual puts me in a game of physics and calculations: amount of X (clutch) in conjunction to Y (throttle), on top of gear selection and ultimately all of this is dictated by my surroundings. Look ahead - traffic? Better drop a gear in anticipation. Going up hill? Drop a gear. Finally reach 6th gear to get some good cruising MPG, fuck someone cuts you off and you get boxed in traffic, back down to 4th gear and revving near the boost building threshold.

It's just gotten completely and utterly over-rated for me. But it is a LOT better to drive than a slushbox Auto. And given the right vehicle, it's sometimes the only way to go.

With a car like the GTI, i'll be more than happy to keep the revs high and continuous with the DSG trans instead of my slow reactionary pedal work.

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Driving a stick in heavy trafffic sucks in any car *edit* and sucks with a stick or auto *edit* , BUT, I personally feel that the MKVI manual is the easiest to drive of the literally dozens of different manual cars I have driven. The clutch is just really forgiving compared to most other cars, and the shifter is pretty smooth, yet also very positive. I'd recommend it as a good learning car for the first time manual driver (just not MY car - I mean another MKVI ).

Anyway, yes I can, and got the stick even though I live in and work in the heart of LA, and do 75% of my driving in the city. The other 25% I do on some of the busiest freeways in the world - 101, 110, 10 and the 5. For those outside of So-Cal, you don't know and you wouldn't want to!

Hilfloskind said:

I actually find the more active participant nature of driving a manual lends itself to a safer driving experience. Because you know you need to anticipate, you do just that...

You find yourself more situationally aware than you would just being a passenger with two pedals. I guess because of the fact that you have to plan your gearshifts, even on a relatively muscle memory sort of level, you are also looking ahead enough to be better prepared for hazards in general, especially cars driven by passengers with two pedals.

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I definitely agree with this. Driving a manual requires you to be more engaged while you drive. I don't mean this negatively in any way to DSG drivers, but the act of always having to anticipate your gearing really tunes you into your driving in a way that just doesn't happen when your in an automatic.

McQueen77 said:

While I agree it can be hellish, the bolded statement seems silly, esp coming from a guy who drives a Speed3.. But ok, tell that to like 95% of drivers in Europe who drive their MT equipped cars in hellish traffic every day (ever been to Rome? Munich? London?) and wouldn't trade their manuals in for anything. Maybe I'm just used to it after over a decade of it but I drive my car w/ a stick in LA every day and it doesn't bother me that much. Sure it gets tedious, but it also gets tedious having to ride your brake in a car that is in 'D' and wants to creep forward on its own all the time. Talk about annoying. Anything having to do with traffic blows. Even in LA, there is at least 50% of the time that I get to drive at cruising and highway speeds without much traffic and always make time to get out the all the deserted backroads near bye. Thats the part of town I live though. If i were trapped in the grid around like Fairfax and Melrose, it might get pretty old pretty fast.

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Europe has driven manuals for as long as us fat Americans have requested 8+ cupholders in our cars. There's no reason to manufacturer slushboxes for the Euro market when manual is what they're used to, just like there's no reason to campaign "Leave your coffee at home!" and put less cupholders in our cars. The Germans think we're retarded for ever needing cupholders, since they think it's amazing we'd FATHOM doing anything other than actual DRIVING while behind the wheel.

My point is, it'll always be preferential but a manual will always be the most exhilirating on the open road with room to wind the gears out and space out your shifts rather than clutch/brake/clutch/brake/1st/clutch/clutch/brake/neutral/idle/clutch/1st/2nd/clutch/neutral/brake.

Manual is definitely more engaging to drive because you are VERY aware of your surroundings, but not by willingness - by obligation. Your ride depends on your ability to map out future actions and time them accordingly or react defensively not out of safety but out of avoiding a downshift/revmatch/precautionary defensive manuever.

mikent256 said:

Manual is definitely more engaging to drive because you are VERY aware of your surroundings, but not by willingness - by obligation. Your ride depends on your ability to map out future actions and time them accordingly or react defensively not out of safety but out of avoiding a downshift/revmatch/precautionary defensive manuever.

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For me, it's willingness as well as obligation. I WANT to think while I'm driving. I feel like I'm actually interfacing with my car fully when I'm making those decisions about downshifting, rev matching, maneuvering, etc... I guess spending 3 years of my life driving for a living, I came to appreciate the idea.

Driving manual well and having it become second nature can be a Zen-like experience of being one with the vehicle. It can also be a pain in the ass, but I'll always love it and am glad I can do it well. When I test drove this 328i coupe with a stick, I was banging it around pretty good and having a good time during the test drive. The salesmen commented to me "you really know how to drive a stick, its very smooth, how long have you been driving?" He then proceeded to tell me about the guys who would go in there, determined to get the manual and they'd be stalling and grinding gears during the test drive.. Speaking of that, I drove my wife's friend's 328i with the steptronic and paddle shifters/sport package the other day and dug it. Couldn't hang if that were my only car but it'd be nice to have the option. One car though, one tranny. I have this loosely based long term hypothetical plan that, provided I make more money down the line etc. that I keep the GTI for some ungodly amount of time, get up to Stage II on it, mod the suspension and have it semi retire from DD duties to be my fun weekend/maybe even Auto-X car and then get a 328i w/a step for my DD and call it a day. But that probably won't happen. I'll probably just drive the GTI into the ground, clean it up, sell it and get another car. I need to make more money.

Hilfloskind said:

For me, it's willingness as well as obligation. I WANT to think while I'm driving. I feel like I'm actually interfacing with my car fully when I'm making those decisions about downshifting, rev matching, maneuvering, etc... I guess spending 3 years of my life driving for a living, I came to appreciate the idea.

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I feel the same here. Although I haven't driven nearly as much, at 17. I feel 'connected' to the car.

I try to rev-match downshifting but without heel-and-toe. Not really double clutch because I just rev with the clutch open. Heel-and-toe will happen eventually.

Hilfloskind said:

For me, it's willingness as well as obligation. I WANT to think while I'm driving. I feel like I'm actually interfacing with my car fully when I'm making those decisions about downshifting, rev matching, maneuvering, etc... I guess spending 3 years of my life driving for a living, I came to appreciate the idea.

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Too much other stuff going on around me to enjoy that anymore. Especially when i'm surrounded by douche-bag-zombies trying to get to work on-time and leave for home at the same time. Complete and utter failboat, sore left knee FTL.

DON'T INSULT ME :slice:

mikent256 said:

Too much other stuff going on around me to enjoy that anymore. Especially when i'm surrounded by douche-bag-zombies trying to get to work on-time and leave for home at the same time. Complete and utter failboat, sore left knee FTL.

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In Livonia, MI, population 96,942??!!! Thats a cake walk.. Jesus. MT all day long in a place like that. One day commuting on the 10 East at 5pm and you'd shoot yourself in the face.

Point taken. It's still really bad during rush hour commutes which end up being 90% of my drive now.

So I hope you can understand my general animosity towards it. The drive is tolerable if you could at least remove that aspect of the drive.

I learned last year on my dad's '74 Triumph TR6. A man's man car. After that, I thought the GTI was a little soft, I was scared to push it around. But before that I was driving my sisters Passat 1.8T and a 99' Jeep Wrangler. I honestly think driving automatic just isn't as fun now. I'll probably drive mostly sticks from now on.

I think the biggest benefit to driving stick is the range of cars you can drive, from modern super cars to the original Mk1 GTI. You can get an appreciation for the individual feel and drive of a certain car. I've driven my GTI, the 74' Tr6 and a 63' Corvair, and each one is fun and unique in it's own way.

It's a 100% necessary life skill, like knowing how to tie your shoes. Sure you could buy slip-ons for the rest of your life, but that would just be stupid.

I learned when I was 14 on a 1987 Toyota MR2 (older brother's car). He brought me to a road with a steep, backward rolling hill and said "don't roll back" You learn fast that way : )

Haven't owned an automatic since.

I drive a manual because it forces you to be more involved in the driving experience and driving is one of my favorite things. I don't agree that a machine can decide for me, which is the best gear to select. Ever. Sure it may be able to do it faster, but it doesn't know what I know. That said, the DSG is awesome, just not for me.

I learned to drive stick back in high school on an old Ford Fiesta to get clutch work down (was in drivers ed. and they had it around for people that wanted to learn manual, but it was beat to hell because of that). Then really learned on a friend's GMC Sonoma small pickup 4 speed my first year of college. Talk about a numb clutch and long throws :laugh:

Then didn't touch a manual until I moved in with my roommate about 4 years ago who had a Passat wagon manual (don't see those every day) with a stage 2+ clutch which he used for autoX. Talk about minimum engagement point. :yikes: It's either you are on or off, very little in between. But hey, it taught me clutch work quickly.

Then finally got back into manual with my Saab 9-3 I got. Fun car with the turbo, nice car with all the amenities it had for the price too. Unfortunately, my roommate's gf decided to wreck it when I let her borrow it (note to self: NO ONE gets to drive my car other than me now).

And now I'm in a 2.5 manual. Not as much power, but a lot more MPGs