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me vs Supercharged Cobalt

DBESTGTI1

DBESTGTI1

Go Kart Champion
Yes your right, a Sentra is just like a GTI but slower, I couldn't wait to go test drive one when I was considering a GTI, WRX, and a Speed3.

It's funny when you talk about it being faster than cars in it's class and your only examples are naturally aspirated entry level grocery getters that can't hold a candle to a GTI in any category other then gas mileage. What's next, are you gonna tell it's faster than a Honda Fit? 4 door 4 cylinder hatches with paddle shifters, that has to be the same class as a GTI as well right?

lol
 
06gsxr1000

06gsxr1000

Go Kart Champion
DBESTGTI said:
Yes your right, a Sentra is just like a GTI but slower, I couldn't wait to go test drive one when I was considering a GTI, WRX, and a Speed3.

It's funny when you talk about it being faster than cars in it's class and your only examples are naturally aspirated entry level grocery getters that can't hold a candle to a GTI in any category other then gas mileage. What's next, are you gonna tell it's faster than a Honda Fit? 4 door 4 cylinder hatches with paddle shifters, that has to be the same class as a GTI as well right?

lol
Click to expand...

The gti, is nowhere fast, but in my opinion either are any of the other cars you listed! The gti takes to modifications very well!! Just like the Evo and the other ones! No 4 cylinder turbo is fast! PEOPLE DON'T BUY THE GTI TO HAVE A FAST CAR!! They buy it for it's fun to drive and the ability to modify and have fun with! If you want a "race car" you don't buy a gti! If you want a NOT SLOW not bad on gas good looking hatch that you can "soup up" to make funner you buy a GTI!! Now can we get back to the OP and stop arguing!
 
03boostedGTi

03boostedGTi

Ready to race!
idk if this was said but the Super charged SS are slow as hell

the turbo ones are somthing to watch out for


i raced a SC cobalt with my mk5 i had a custom catback and an intake. i beat his by a car and a half because it was DSG every shift i was getting more ground on him.

alot of people i hear swap out the SC for a turbo hah
 
V

veedubj011

Ready to race!
DBESTGTI said:
Yes your right, a Sentra is just like a GTI but slower, I couldn't wait to go test drive one when I was considering a GTI, WRX, and a Speed3.

It's funny when you talk about it being faster than cars in it's class and your only examples are naturally aspirated entry level grocery getters that can't hold a candle to a GTI in any category other then gas mileage. What's next, are you gonna tell it's faster than a Honda Fit? 4 door 4 cylinder hatches with paddle shifters, that has to be the same class as a GTI as well right?

lol
Click to expand...

That is my point. You keep bringing up aspiration, which really has nothing to do with determining the class. The class is determined by hp, tq, handing, mpg, gearing, and other things. Although i do not disagree that the GTI is a much better car than the sentra or si, the fact is that, for all intents and purposes, they are in the same class. Although you did not consider these cars when you made your choice, others might have because of magazine articles and statistical information which place these vehicles in the same class or category. Once again, i chose these cars for a reason. To illustrate that the GTI can and does beat a lot of cars and is in the top of its class. Now comparing the GTI to a general 4-cylinder turbo standard, to which there is no restriction of class, is irrelevant. Comparing a GTI to an STI is not logical because they are in completely different classes and have no similarities other than 4 cylinders and a turbo. Compare the Golf R to an STI and than you can make that argument. So if we are in the game of unfairly comparing a GTI to cars outside of its class, than sure, its slow.



And to go back to your previous post, your argument has no strength what so ever.

Can you honestly say that the STI, TT-S, and the EVO are all in the same class as a GTI? I think not. You also stated that you agreed with my statement that HP is not everything, yet you give me a list of cars with more HP than a GTI, which in itself means nothing.

All statistics are from MotorTrend Magazine:

Volkswagen GTI: 200hp 207lb/ft, FWD, 0-60: 5.8sec, 1/4mile: 14.5 @ 96.7
Lancer Ralliart: 237hp 253lb/ft, AWD, 0-60: 5.5sec, 1/4mile: 14.2 @ 96.6

Hmmmm interesting...this is a car that you yourself mentioned. Same class. Both turbo'd 4 cylinders. The ralliart has the advantage with more HP and AWD for a better launch, yet the GTI still seems to pull a faster trap time. This suggests that, from a roll, a GTI might actually pull.

Hyundai Sonata 2.0T: 274hp 269lb/ft, 0-60: 6.5, 1/4mile: 15.0 @ 94.7
Hyundai Genesis 2.0T: 210hp 223lb/ft, 0-60: 6.8, 1/4mile: 15.2 @ 90.3
Chevrolet HHR SS: 260hp 260lb/ft, 0-60: 6.3, 1/4mile: 15.0 @ 92.8
Chevrolet Cobalt SS/SC: 205hp 200lb/tq, 0-60: 6.1, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 99.3
2005 Dodge Neon SRT-4: 230hp 250lb/ft, 0-60: 6.0, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 100.8
Dodge Caliber SRT-4: 285hp 265lb/ft, 0-60: 6.0, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 103
Mazdaspeed 3: 263hp 285lb/tq, 0-60: 5.6, 1/4mile: 14.1 @ 99.9
Sentra SE-R Spec V: 200hp 180lb/tq, 0-60: 6.4 1/4mile: 14.9



i think i have proved my point..the list goes on to mention the mini cooper s, wrx, civic si, honda s200, and many more.
My point is, that of all these cars, the GTI holds its ground and is by no means slow.
 
V

veedubj011

Ready to race!
06gsxr1000 said:
The gti, is nowhere fast, but in my opinion either are any of the other cars you listed! The gti takes to modifications very well!! Just like the Evo and the other ones! No 4 cylinder turbo is fast! PEOPLE DON'T BUY THE GTI TO HAVE A FAST CAR!! They buy it for it's fun to drive and the ability to modify and have fun with! If you want a "race car" you don't buy a gti! If you want a NOT SLOW not bad on gas good looking hatch that you can "soup up" to make funner you buy a GTI!! Now can we get back to the OP and stop arguing!
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:
 
DBESTGTI1

DBESTGTI1

Go Kart Champion
veedubj011 said:
That is my point. You keep bringing up aspiration, which really has nothing to do with determining the class. The class is determined by hp, tq, handing, mpg, gearing, and other things. Although i do not disagree that the GTI is a much better car than the sentra or si, the fact is that, for all intents and purposes, they are in the same class. Although you did not consider these cars when you made your choice, others might have because of magazine articles and statistical information which place these vehicles in the same class or category. Once again, i chose these cars for a reason. To illustrate that the GTI can and does beat a lot of cars and is in the top of its class. Now comparing the GTI to a general 4-cylinder turbo standard, to which there is no restriction of class, is irrelevant. Comparing a GTI to an STI is not logical because they are in completely different classes and have no similarities other than 4 cylinders and a turbo. Compare the Golf R to an STI and than you can make that argument. So if we are in the game of unfairly comparing a GTI to cars outside of its class, than sure, its slow.



And to go back to your previous post, your argument has no strength what so ever.

Can you honestly say that the STI, TT-S, and the EVO are all in the same class as a GTI? I think not. You also stated that you agreed with my statement that HP is not everything, yet you give me a list of cars with more HP than a GTI, which in itself means nothing.

All statistics are from MotorTrend Magazine:

Volkswagen GTI: 200hp 207lb/ft, FWD, 0-60: 5.8sec, 1/4mile: 14.5 @ 96.7
Lancer Ralliart: 237hp 253lb/ft, AWD, 0-60: 5.5sec, 1/4mile: 14.2 @ 96.6

Hmmmm interesting...this is a car that you yourself mentioned. Same class. Both turbo'd 4 cylinders. The ralliart has the advantage with more HP and AWD for a better launch, yet the GTI still seems to pull a faster trap time. This suggests that, from a roll, a GTI might actually pull.

Hyundai Sonata 2.0T: 274hp 269lb/ft, 0-60: 6.5, 1/4mile: 15.0 @ 94.7
Hyundai Genesis 2.0T: 210hp 223lb/ft, 0-60: 6.8, 1/4mile: 15.2 @ 90.3
Chevrolet HHR SS: 260hp 260lb/ft, 0-60: 6.3, 1/4mile: 15.0 @ 92.8
Chevrolet Cobalt SS/SC: 205hp 200lb/tq, 0-60: 6.1, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 99.3
2005 Dodge Neon SRT-4: 230hp 250lb/ft, 0-60: 6.0, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 100.8
Dodge Caliber SRT-4: 285hp 265lb/ft, 0-60: 6.0, 1/4mile: 14.4 @ 103
Mazdaspeed 3: 263hp 285lb/tq, 0-60: 5.6, 1/4mile: 14.1 @ 99.9
Sentra SE-R Spec V: 200hp 180lb/tq, 0-60: 6.4 1/4mile: 14.9



i think i have proved my point..the list goes on to mention the mini cooper s, wrx, civic si, honda s200, and many more.
My point is, that of all these cars, the GTI holds its ground and is by no means slow.
Click to expand...

No you haven't proved your point.... put since your so stuck on class, you have managed to prove the GTI can only beat naturally aspirated cars in it's class, anything with a similar engine (4 cylinder turbo) in its class beats it. And you sure haven't done anything to disprove my point, that pretty much every 4 cylinder turbo ENGINE has more power than VW. It doesn't matter if it's from Hyundai, Mazda, Chevy, Subaru, Mitsushity, or anyone else... if it has 4 cylinders and a method of building boost it will make more power than a GTI.

The fact that your using trap speeds to try to call the slower car faster tells me your to much of ignorant GTI fanboy to justify continuing to argue with you. So this is my last post on the subject.

Jellybean said:
Arguing over 2 slow cars fail
Click to expand...
It's actually arguing over 1 slow car lol
 
V

veedubj011

Ready to race!
DBESTGTI said:
No you haven't proved your point.... put since your so stuck on class, you have managed to prove the GTI can only beat naturally aspirated cars in it's class, anything with a similar engine (4 cylinder turbo) in its class beats it. And you sure haven't done anything to disprove my point, that pretty much every 4 cylinder turbo ENGINE has more power than VW. It doesn't matter if it's from Hyundai, Mazda, Chevy, Subaru, Mitsushity, or anyone else... if it has 4 cylinders and a method of building boost it will make more power than a GTI.

The fact that your using trap speeds to try to call the slower car faster tells me your to much of ignorant GTI fanboy to justify continuing to argue with you. So this is my last post on the subject.


It's actually arguing over 1 slow car lol
Click to expand...

Haha im sorry but your are a ****ing idiot. You obviously did not read what i posted. The reason i am stuck on class is because there is no point in comparing a car otherwise. Comparing a car to cars out of its class is literally comparing apples to oranges. It does not matter whether it is turboed or not. Furthermore, if you would of read what i posted, i listed 5 4 cylinder forced induction cars that were quoted from the list you provided and supported them with data to prove the gti was faster than all of them. On the same note, i listed 3 cars that were on your list that beat the gti because i am not trying to prove that the gti is the fastest car ever, but rather performs well (beats over half) in its class, which is all that matters when debating about a car being slow. For those of you who said the gti is slow, refer to my first post where i stated that fast is relative and depending on perspective and what it is being compared to, sure its slow. But in its class, the gti performs well. This is the only aruement i am trying to make and the only one, one should make, when trying to justify a single cars performance. A gti is not compared to an sti, an sti is not compared to a gt500, and a gt500 is not compared to a saleen s7. There is always a faster car and you can make anything seem slow by comparing it out of its class. Maintain perspective and the gti is not slow.

I bring up trap times because that is a big factor in testing cars. In that specific case, the trap speed indicates that despite a slower launch, the gti was able to start pulling on the ralliart. This suggests that from a position where momentum is already built and there is no disadvantage of a launch, the gti could pull on the ralliart. A 4 cylinder turbo car. Now unless you are going to actually give me an intelligent response, which you have yet to do, i really hope you do not post again.
 
06gsxr1000

06gsxr1000

Go Kart Champion
DBESTGTI said:
No you haven't proved your point.... put since your so stuck on class, you have managed to prove the GTI can only beat naturally aspirated cars in it's class, anything with a similar engine (4 cylinder turbo) in its class beats it. And you sure haven't done anything to disprove my point, that pretty much every 4 cylinder turbo ENGINE has more power than VW. It doesn't matter if it's from Hyundai, Mazda, Chevy, Subaru, Mitsushity, or anyone else... if it has 4 cylinders and a method of building boost it will make more power than a GTI.

The fact that your using trap speeds to try to call the slower car faster tells me your to much of ignorant GTI fanboy to justify continuing to argue with you. So this is my last post on the subject.


It's actually arguing over 1 slow car lol
Click to expand...

What does it matter if it is turbo or not? A motor is a motor I have seen PLENTY n/a motors faster then a TURBO or S/C motor, the SI, and others are in its class. And STI or EVO are no where near the GTI class! Its like saying a RX-7 is in the same class as an RX-8 because they are both rotory engines! Makes no sense man! Or its like saying the 3000 GT VR-4 is the same as a volvo s60R! They are both 6 cylinder turbos! :thumbup: Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
 
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V

veedubj011

Ready to race!
06gsxr1000 said:
What does it matter if it is turbo or not? A motor is a motor I have seen PLENTY n/a motors faster then a TURBO or S/C motor, the SI, and others are in its class. And STI or EVO are no where near the GTI class! Its like saying a RX-7 is in the same class as an RX-8 because they are both rotory engines! Makes no sense man! Or its like saying the 3000 GT VR-4 is the same as a volvo s60R! They are both 6 cylinder turbos! :thumbup: Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That is exactly my point.
 
omes4life1

omes4life1

Ready to race!
veedubj011 said:
Thank you! That is exactly my point.
Click to expand...

You dont know wht your talking about. For a turboed 4 banger its slow as fuhh could be easily way faster.

Btw do some research, if you actually knew something about your car..the
0-60 on a bone stock GTI fresh from the factory is 6.8~6.9 and dynos 180~190WHP with 200~210bhp. The Best Quarter mile time for a stock GTI is 14.9 with a pro driver. Ive seen many average drivers hit 15.2 which is pathetic for a 4 banger turbo.

The GTI falls under the same class as the WRX and the Lancer Raliart. Which both cars shit on our poor gti due to lack of power and shitty drivetrain. Please dont say "but in looks our car kills it!" because then my point has been proven. This is about power.

I completely agree on the fact that THE GTI SHOULD HAVE CAME EQUIPPED WITH A K04 from the FACTORY! FYI If you guys didnt kno, the new Cobalt SS/TC comes equiped with a borg Warner K04 turbo charger stock. Thats why it kills our car. kinda Sad because they are around the same price range too. Shoulda picked up one of them.

**Flamesuit Acrivated**
**jewsuit Activated**
Ijust came to say HELLO!
 
V

veedubj011

Ready to race!
omes4life said:
You dont know wht your talking about. For a turboed 4 banger its slow as fuhh could be easily way faster.

Btw do some research, if you actually knew something about your car..the
0-60 on a bone stock GTI fresh from the factory is 6.8~6.9 and dynos 180~190WHP with 200~210bhp. The Best Quarter mile time for a stock GTI is 14.9 with a pro driver. Ive seen many average drivers hit 15.2 which is pathetic for a 4 banger turbo.

The GTI falls under the same class as the WRX and the Lancer Raliart. Which both cars shit on our poor gti due to lack of power and shitty drivetrain. Please dont say "but in looks our car kills it!" because then my point has been proven. This is about power.

I completely agree on the fact that THE GTI SHOULD HAVE CAME EQUIPPED WITH A K04 from the FACTORY! FYI If you guys didnt kno, the new Cobalt SS/TC comes equiped with a borg Warner K04 turbo charger stock. Thats why it kills our car. kinda Sad because they are around the same price range too. Shoulda picked up one of them.

**Flamesuit Acrivated**
**jewsuit Activated**
Ijust came to say HELLO!
Click to expand...

Hmmm interesting...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/112_0910_2010_volkswagen_gti_test/review.html
As i said..quoted from motor trend: 0-60: 5.8sec, 1/4mile: 14.5 @ 96.7

Looks like you have seen faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9F7uw1PRE8
14.2 @ 96.5

Interesting once more..


did you not read the post? i just proved that the ralliart does not shit on the gti. The new wrx, however, will out perform and is in the same class, i agree.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4605732
203whp 208wtq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0NK865qQlg
202whp 208wtq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvbENam0kQ
203whp 214wtq

Interesting...i dont know my own car huh? seems like your the one mistaken.

You can drive a cobalt ss all you want..but at the end of the race..you still drive a cobalt.
 
B

Bruno2000

Ready to race!
A stock GTI, whatever the HPS/TQ numbers, gives some great performance feedback. It is fast compared to competitions? I dont really care since it FEEL faster that what it is. How the heck u guys can say a GTI isnt fast! U should probably say its not fast enough for YOU!

But a GTI is easy to mods and not that expensive.

My gti 0-60 is around 5.0 sec, with a 1/4 miles into low 13.

This is fast enough for a FWD ! In fact, if u look closely about what GTIs are, a hot hatchback FWD, it become one of the best in his class after mods, performance wise. Now if u think hot hatchback fwd cant deliver in any performance segment, well, u are wrong.

A Gti stock with a K04 as engine option would be an exellent move, but it would hurt Audi A3 and mores.
 
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