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Technical Understanding: Intakes: Stock vs. Drop In vs. Aftermarket

RABBIT FUR

Ready to race!
I must agree with Benders comments. This test only shows us what worked best for this combo of tune and KO4. It is not the best intake for every TSI ever. There are just to many varriables that could sway the out come to make that assumption. Great tread if you are KO4 with 366 hp. Keep that in mind all you STG 1 and STG 2 guys.
 

McQueen77

Banned
To me there is a potential flaw in the testing methodology (for anyone who is not K04). The problem I see is the difference in air demands between the stock IHI turbo and your KO4. You have shown very nicely the aftermarket intakes flow better with the increased demands but with a stock turbo the flow is going to be less and the difference will be less pronounced. Isn't a K04 moving more air thus making the lack of movement the stock box can provide a bigger problem?

^^sort of my initial comments, just put more eloquently.

air demands as you put it w/k04 are definitely greater than k03 turbo, so in theory, these gains become more negligible, or differences between intake and stock air on say, stage 1 w/stock turbo, become smaller due to lesser demands from stock turbo. so, bigger turbo = more gains and benefits from AM intake vs. smaller turbo..
 

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
I must agree with Benders comments. This test only shows us what worked best for this combo of tune and KO4. It is not the best intake for every TSI ever. There are just to many varriables that could sway the out come to make that assumption. Great tread if you are KO4 with 366 hp. Keep that in mind all you STG 1 and STG 2 guys.

There isn't as many variables as you'd think, the largest variable is the one I mentioned about MAF placement.

The turbo is requiring Y amount of air at X RPM and that doesn't change. The recipe for power is Xair/boost + Yfuel + Ztiming and its a moving target dependent on ambient conditions. For the system to meet the load requirements of the tuner (ex: achieving requested boost) it will need a certain amount of volume of air and thats all there really is.

The ambient conditions may change and effect the density of the air and have a MAF reading less than what it would on a cooler day with less humidity but it won't change what the air intake can and can't physically do. This is exactly like a tuner using an air intake with a different MAF location, the tuner cannot change what the air intake can physically produce in delivering air volume. They can recognize its limits and characteristics to write a calibration that will optimize its capabilities but a tuner cannot change how it physically performs but rather make the best out of what is there.

A head to head comparison through MAF readings is 100% legit, we aren't measuring the power output of the vehicle but the airflow capacity of the air intake. The APR tune has not altered the MAF and will report how much airflow has exited the air intake and thus giving the best indication of how it performs. If the relocated MAF in another intake has it reading less airflow, that would mean the Bosch EMS will read less airflow and adjust the million different readings that accompany it accordingly.
 

RABBIT FUR

Ready to race!
MAF readings 100% true test i agree. Max flow of a certain CAI design also true. Mainly i just wanted other readers to understand that the APR intake should not be considered the best just because it can flow more air. If your motor , turbo , and tune do not require that much air than it is not better. It would just be the same. I think that some people may take the test findings the wrong way
 

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
MAF readings 100% true test i agree. Max flow of a certain CAI design also true. Mainly i just wanted other readers to understand that the APR intake should not be considered the best just because it can flow more air. If your motor , turbo , and tune do not require that much air than it is not better. It would just be the same. I think that some people may take the test findings the wrong way

This is where you are losing me, an intake that produces the highest MAF readings will be the best performer. An intake that flows less with a K04 than a competitor cannot be considered a better performing set up. If this same intake flows comparable with the Carbonio with an IHI that doesn't make it a better intake with respect to performance.

I'm not making claims that the Carbonio is the best because it hasn't been put up against the competition. If it goes up against the competitors and then flows more then yes, it's a better performing intake. I don't see how that's disputable and I'm not trying to be mean or anything I'm trying to follow your thinking.
 

RABBIT FUR

Ready to race!
OK to keep it simple. I think that the test results will differ on a STG 1 only. By the way what intake tested did have the highest MAF reading at the max RPM ?
 

Kal-GTI

Ready to race!
Has filter area been figured into any of this? Seen a lot of this design vs. that design, but no one has mentioned filter area. The larger the area of the filter, the higher the potential for increased flow correct? I'm not sure about the modshack filter size, but I'm going to guess from the pics I've seen that it is a little smaller than the carbonio.
 

A_Bowers

Moderator
Has filter area been figured into any of this? Seen a lot of this design vs. that design, but no one has mentioned filter area. The larger the area of the filter, the higher the potential for increased flow correct? I'm not sure about the modshack filter size, but I'm going to guess from the pics I've seen that it is a little smaller than the carbonio.

At this point i don't think that has too much of an impact.

The main restriction in the intake was the OEM box.

You may see a small increase in MAF readings with a physically larger filter but nothing that is going to be a game changer
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
People I think are missing the entire point of my post.

First off, its to show the flaw within the actual stock intake itself, not to prove/disprove that the carbonio is the best intake out there.

Secondly, just because its k04 doesnt mean diddly. The physical effects will still be apparent intake to intake regardless of which tune/turbo/downpipe/etc you have on the car. If you have X tune and supply intake R, S, T you cannot make an intake change its flow characteristics just because the Y tune requests a different timing or fueling value. The flow is going to be almost dead on if not exactly the same. I've seen GIAC, APR, UNI, and REVO boosting. All are pretty much the same or very close

Let's take GIAC tuning for example. I KNOW that they tune for higher boost in the midrange on the K04. Since we've exposed a midrange flow characteristic of the Modshack, why would I want to hinder it? Using the data and theory in this thread, you can deduce the carbonio has better flow potential further down the RPM band and thus, a similar intake should pull the same. IE CCB. Even with a MAF location change the flow shouldnt be too much different after the 90* bend within the system. Actually, it might be slightly slower due to head loss.

Open the mind just a little bit more and broaden the gaze. You cant take data like this so cut and dry or otherwise you're arguing minute details that have nothing to do with the testing focus and the results. My purpose was to promote the sale of aftermarket intakes with one minor comparison, since we actually had the data available.

Look at the title of the thread. It doesnt say anything about the Carbonio being the best.
 

Bender1

Banned
People I think are missing the entire point of my post.

First off, its to show the flaw within the actual stock intake itself, not to prove/disprove that the carbonio is the best intake out there.

Secondly, just because its k04 doesnt mean diddly. The physical effects will still be apparent intake to intake regardless of which tune/turbo/downpipe/etc you have on the car. If you have X tune and supply intake R, S, T you cannot make an intake change its flow characteristics just because the Y tune requests a different timing or fueling value. The flow is going to be almost dead on if not exactly the same. I've seen GIAC, APR, UNI, and REVO boosting. All are pretty much the same or very close

Let's take GIAC tuning for example. I KNOW that they tune for higher boost in the midrange on the K04. Since we've exposed a midrange flow characteristic of the Modshack, why would I want to hinder it? Using the data and theory in this thread, you can deduce the carbonio has better flow potential further down the RPM band and thus, a similar intake should pull the same. IE CCB. Even with a MAF location change the flow shouldnt be too much different after the 90* bend within the system. Actually, it might be slightly slower due to head loss.

Open the mind just a little bit more and broaden the gaze. You cant take data like this so cut and dry or otherwise you're arguing minute details that have nothing to do with the testing focus and the results. My purpose was to promote the sale of aftermarket intakes with one minor comparison, since we actually had the data available.

Look at the title of the thread. It doesnt say anything about the Carbonio being the best.

I think where people are getting hung up (at least I am) is boost being included as boost is not a simple function of how well an intake is flowing. YES it is what the ultimate question is, but too many other factors influence it (IMO). Totally with you on this above statement, and the test in general, when I take boost out of the equation and look at IATs and MAF.
 
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