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Big Turbo Discussion Thread #2

V

vwgti2.0t

Go Kart Champion
zef said:
What I don't understand is that APR is the only company to fill the void between ko4 and true BT. No one else in the marketplace sells a complete plug and play big turbo kit that's safe on stock rods (and stock fueling) that I can install myself and have running in my own garage in a day, maybe two. HPA has told me that even their GTX power pack (which adds 50hp to APR's GTX kit) can be safely run on stock internals. You get the same plug and play convenience and reliability with a KO4 kit but add an additional 80+hp. No fueling or tuning headaches that is common place with custom BT builds.

Is my line of thinking wrong here??
Click to expand...

Honestly the APR kit is solid as a whole, the turbo is just a tad too small. I still run the 3+ kit (it's from like 2009, and solidly reliable) with the GT3071 and it's made a documented 500+whp on multiple cars. I'm not sure why they didn't stick with that turbo.

Either way, just do drop in rods. No reason to go further. Add ARP head studs while you're there and some valve springs depending on budget. These motors hold up to a beating with just those items.

For a turbo kit, I'd just do a CTS GTX3071 kit and find someone good to tune it. Eurodyne works well, but the capabilities are limited. If there is a Cobb pro-tuner by you that is probably the better route.

As far as fueling, if you're willing to do water meth that will definitely hold up to more than enough. I think stock injectors, a TTRS pump and controller (either TTRS or PM3) and direct port meth (preferably Aquamist for failsafes and reliability) will hold up to a solid 500+whp. Injectors don't net hardly anymore headroom compared to stock.
 
GTR_Killer

GTR_Killer

Go Kart Champion
Cadubya said:
In4updates
Click to expand...

Well phase 1 includes safety, fueling, drive train mainly.

Safety
  • Rollcage
  • harnesses
  • race seats

Fueling
  • 3 044 Bosch 320lph in a custom surge tank using 8AN lines with a 4th 044 to supply them from the main tank
  • Bosch ID2000cc injectors made into a custom fuel rail and DPI into the manifold bc no good ones fit the head, fml

Drivetrain
  • 01E built trans swap -The mainshaft, first and second gears are cryogenically tempered for ultimate strength. WPC surface treatments on mainshaft, first and second gears. Shift sleeves are the most recent update, and the syncro rings are the updated as well.All syncro rings are forged rings made in Europe and sourced through Porsche Motorsports.
  • Rear diff- Skyline GTR R32 R200 LSD 4.11 final drive- custom diff carrier and bushings being fabricated to hold this in
  • Custom chromoly DSS axles
  • Custom carbon fiber one piece drive shaft

Also wiring in the standalone and hand made wiring harness with a bluetooth tablet dash. Also a custom fab'd catch can going in during phase 1 as well but whoopy who cares about that.

The engine will just have drop in rods for now while a build the real engine over the next year.
Already have a 67mm turbo on there with an ugly ass exhaust mani that will just get the job done for now. All this to be addressed in phase 2. Okay now you have an update, lol
 
Last edited:
Mostic

Mostic

Go Kart Champion
GTR_Killer said:
Well phase 1 includes safety, fueling, drive train mainly.

Safety
  • Rollcage
  • harnesses
  • race seats

Fueling
  • 3 044 Bosch 320lph in a custom surge tank using 8AN lines with a 4th 044 to supply them from the main tank
  • Bosch ID2000cc injectors made into a custom fuel rail and DPI into the manifold bc no good ones fit the head, fml

Drivetrain
  • 01E built trans swap -The mainshaft, first and second gears are cryogenically tempered for ultimate strength. WPC surface treatments on mainshaft, first and second gears. Shift sleeves are the most recent update, and the syncro rings are the updated as well.All syncro rings are forged rings made in Europe and sourced through Porsche Motorsports.
  • Rear diff- Skyline GTR R32 R200 LSD 4.11 final drive- custom diff carrier and bushings being fabricated to hold this in
  • Custom chromoly DSS axles
  • Custom carbon fiber one piece drive shaft

Also wiring in the standalone and hand made wiring harness with a bluetooth tablet dash. Also a custom fab'd catch can going in during phase 1 as well but whoopy who cares about that.

The engine will just have drop in rods for now while a build the real engine over the next year.
Already have a 67mm turbo on there with an ugly ass exhaust mani that will just get the job done for now. All this to be addressed in phase 2. Okay now you have an update, lol
Click to expand...



In 4 updates and pics too :)
 
Cadubya

Cadubya

Autocross Newbie
GTR_Killer said:
Well phase 1 includes safety, fueling, drive train mainly.

Safety
  • Rollcage
  • harnesses
  • race seats

Fueling
  • 3 044 Bosch 320lph in a custom surge tank using 8AN lines with a 4th 044 to supply them from the main tank
  • Bosch ID2000cc injectors made into a custom fuel rail and DPI into the manifold bc no good ones fit the head, fml

Drivetrain
  • 01E built trans swap -The mainshaft, first and second gears are cryogenically tempered for ultimate strength. WPC surface treatments on mainshaft, first and second gears. Shift sleeves are the most recent update, and the syncro rings are the updated as well.All syncro rings are forged rings made in Europe and sourced through Porsche Motorsports.
  • Rear diff- Skyline GTR R32 R200 LSD 4.11 final drive- custom diff carrier and bushings being fabricated to hold this in
  • Custom chromoly DSS axles
  • Custom carbon fiber one piece drive shaft

Also wiring in the standalone and hand made wiring harness with a bluetooth tablet dash. Also a custom fab'd catch can going in during phase 1 as well but whoopy who cares about that.

The engine will just have drop in rods for now while a build the real engine over the next year.
Already have a 67mm turbo on there with an ugly ass exhaust mani that will just get the job done for now. All this to be addressed in phase 2. Okay now you have an update, lol
Click to expand...



Pics or it didn’t happen
 
U

U-20T

Go Kart Champion
brobst said:
My plan is 400hp-450hp tops. I thought that was simply rods. I need to do more reading then. Because you are right, I want to nail the motor stuff in one go.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

400whp/450chp is completely ok on a stock engine and dsg (with tune). My mk5 TSI was 460chp with 120k miles and I drove it daily.
 
jettaglis

jettaglis

Go Kart Champion
I haven't posted in a while, well I fixed an exhaust leak recently between the manifold and the turbo. It has been getting worse over time. I was able to take the manifold off the head and get a v-band gasket in there. New v-band clamp (oem vw) and I swear the vehicle picked up 40tq or so. csb.
 
smanierre

smanierre

Autocross Champion
U-20T said:
400whp/450chp is completely ok on a stock engine and dsg (with tune). My mk5 TSI was 460chp with 120k miles and I drove it daily.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to go for ~450 whp and already planning on running Aquamist WMI. What else needs to be done so the engine can handle this power? Also any good turbo recommendations for this range?
 
zef

zef

Drag Racing Champion
If you're looking at having an engine builder do it for you, I'd save at least $14,000 in cash. I've gone to Arnold @ Pag Parts and FFE and they've given me numbers in that ball park.

For turbo kits there are a few out there. In CT we have Pag Parts in New York, Force Fed Engineering in New York, Excelerate Performance in North Branford. Pag Parts uses the EFR turbos, FFE uses precision turbos, excelerate will use whatever you want.

Each of their turbo kits will get you in the 425-450whp range to start. To make this kind of power (reliably) you'll need to open up the engine and swap out some internals.

Based on the quotes I got here is your break down:

$5,000-$6,000 for the turbo kit
$3,500 in parts (rods, timing chain parts, bearings, valvetrain, TTRS fuel pump, PM3 controller etc)
Another $4,000-$5,000 to break down the engine, install components, reseal and reinstall the engine and then tune it. Also includes installing and wiring fueling components.

Also consider that they're going to have to modify your current downpipe to get the turbo to fit, or they're going to have to sell you their own downpipe specific to their kit. They're also going to have to build a turbo outlet pipe to fit between your intercooler and turbo as well.

And while that's all an absolute ass load of money, when it's all said and done you'll have a 10 second car and be able to hang with 95% of the stuff you'll run into on the street.

OR

You can run a slightly smaller turbo kit (Pag sells an EFR6758, or APR's stage 3 kit) that will make 360-370whp and can be reliably run on stock internals (and stock fueling) for about $7,000-$8,000 installed.
 
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smanierre

smanierre

Autocross Champion
zef said:
If you're looking at having an engine builder do it for you, I'd save at least $14,000 in cash. I've gone to Arnold @ Pag Parts and FFE and they've given me numbers in that ball park.

For turbo kits there are a few out there. In CT we have Pag Parts in New York, Force Fed Engineering in New York, Excelerate Performance in North Branford. Pag Parts uses the EFR turbos, FFE uses precision turbos, excelerate will use whatever you want.

Each of their turbo kits will get you in the 425-450whp range to start. To make this kind of power (reliably) you'll need to open up the engine and swap out some internals.

Based on the quotes I got here is your break down:

$5,000-$6,000 for the turbo kit
$3,500 in parts (rods, timing chain parts, bearings, valvetrain, TTRS fuel pump, PM3 controller etc)
Another $4,000-$5,000 to break down the engine, install components, reseal and reinstall the engine and then tune it. Also includes installing and wiring fueling components.

Also consider that they're going to have to modify your current downpipe to get the turbo to fit, or they're going to have to sell you their own downpipe specific to their kit. They're also going to have to build a turbo outlet pipe to fit between your intercooler and turbo as well.

And while that's all an absolute ass load of money, when it's all said and done you'll have a 10 second car and be able to hang with 95% of the stuff you'll run into on the street.

OR

You can run a slightly smaller turbo kit (Pag sells an EFR6758, or APR's stage 3 kit) that will make 360-370whp and can be reliably run on stock internals (and stock fueling) for about $7,000-$8,000 installed.
Click to expand...

My original plan was to go F23T and shoot for ~350 which is ~$2,000 for turbo kit then around $500 for stratified tune. What benefit is there with the Pag or APR kits for 3-4x the price for only a little more power?
 
smanierre

smanierre

Autocross Champion
brobst said:
The benefit would be the power and reliability of that power

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Rotary Knight was able to get 400whp/380wtq from his F23t. Granted he is running E85, but running a 100 octane tune on 93 + WMI w/ failsafes seems like a much cheaper way to get the reliable power advertised in those kits. Not trying to sound like a dick, just trying to see if there is a fault in my logic somewhere.
 
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