Compongi
New member
Not sure if this has been posted yet or not. Very good DIY. Im going to follow this when i clean mine this weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugh9vPz2Zd8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugh9vPz2Zd8
6
TSI Intake Manifold Removal DIY + Valve Cleaning
- Thread starter steelcurtain
- Start date
XGC75
Go Kart Champion
nvturbo
Go Kart Champion
Clockwise....towards the front of the car.
sijray21
Go Kart Newbie
btw - thanks to the OP for posting this and to all those who contributed. with this and a couple videos on youtube I was able to clean my ports/valves and put her back together last night. the car drives so much better now; it can finally breathe. I had 83k miles on the odo and have had misfires with MIL for almost a year before doing this and it has made a huge difference in performance especially at the top end (at least the butt dyno says so) and the idle is nice and smooth now. I'd comment on the mpg, but I've been on the throttle too much to record anything worthwhile.
:happyanim:
regarding the fuel injector seals:
if people do this in the future I highly recommend obtaining a T10133C (maybe T10133B or T10133A or T10133) fuel injector puller/sealer kit for a super easy time to replace the injector seals. I noticed that getting the combustion chamber seal seated was vital after pulling one after an install without it. I also had an injector partially out, but I couldn't remove it fully and didn't want to risk damaging the injector. I initially installed an injector without the kit (it was loose after stretching it onto the fuel injector) and it pushed the seal far enough back to expose the groove. the seal was still tight, but I'm not sure if this would've had any adverse effects in the long run. I ended up buying the kit to simply know I was doing the procedure properly. Since I had the kit I pulled all the injectors and cleaned the tips carefully.
dbestgti has a DIY thread on it from a couple of years ago that is also very helpful:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37349&highlight=fuel+injector
There is also a helpful video on youtube about this (albeit in Spanish), but you just need it to visualize. It's hard to find, so if I find it again i'll link it here.
:happyanim:
regarding the fuel injector seals:
if people do this in the future I highly recommend obtaining a T10133C (maybe T10133B or T10133A or T10133) fuel injector puller/sealer kit for a super easy time to replace the injector seals. I noticed that getting the combustion chamber seal seated was vital after pulling one after an install without it. I also had an injector partially out, but I couldn't remove it fully and didn't want to risk damaging the injector. I initially installed an injector without the kit (it was loose after stretching it onto the fuel injector) and it pushed the seal far enough back to expose the groove. the seal was still tight, but I'm not sure if this would've had any adverse effects in the long run. I ended up buying the kit to simply know I was doing the procedure properly. Since I had the kit I pulled all the injectors and cleaned the tips carefully.
dbestgti has a DIY thread on it from a couple of years ago that is also very helpful:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37349&highlight=fuel+injector
There is also a helpful video on youtube about this (albeit in Spanish), but you just need it to visualize. It's hard to find, so if I find it again i'll link it here.
Just so everybody is aware, VW extended the warranty for certain VINs to 120K on the intake manifold. I almost paid an independent shop to do it but luckily my brother reads this forum constantly. While they were in there they offered to clean the valves for an hour labor, so $100 bucks for a valve cleaning. Sure beats paying for it separately or doing it myself.
Zmedell
New member
Last edited:
MrTocs
Ready to race!
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XGC75
Go Kart Champion
Finished this up this past weekend. Have some insights to share:
First, this video. There's another video posted of a 2008.5 mk5 carbon cleaning but I found it to not be so applicable to my '12 mk6. There were quite a few changes, it turns out. This video, while the camera isn't nearly as good, is much more applicable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7c35MJq5e0
A member asked some good questions I wish I knew going into the job, so copying and pasting them here as well.
1) Did you have to depressurize the fuel system before removing the intake/fuel injectors? Yes I did. I followed steelcurtain's tip to run the engine without the HPFP sensor plugged in. The car ran for about 15 seconds, sounding more and more like a euthanized horse (forgive the crude metaphor, it really is an apt comparison), before I shut it off. When I started unscrewing the line from the HPFP a little bit of pressure bled off in a steady, predictable and uneventful way. Of course there was some fuel to soak up afterwards.
2) Did you get new fuel injector seals and use the fuel injector tool to put them on? Yes I got 4 packs of seals but I didn't get the tool. 5 packs would have been smart had something gone wrong, but I was fortunate that it didn't. The combustion chamber seals on the injectors are literally just plastic cylinders so they take a LOT of working and convincing to install. Eventually they'll go on and sit loose on the injector. Which makes installing them interesting - I seated the tips of my channel wrench on the perimeter of the injector and lightly (LIGHTLY) hammered them into the head. So far, no fuel leaks.
3) Did you need to turn the engine over to close some of the valves? If so, how did you do it? Yep, but turning the engine over turned out to be pretty easy. It's easy to grab a hold of the serpentine belt on either side of the alternator to turn the motor over. I did it in either direction. I also unscrewed the plugs a bit to ease the compression as the pistons moved. Otherwise there was a bit too much resistance for that belt.
4) Other than picks and cleaning solvents, did you use any other tools to clean the valves? I saw one where a guy used a drill and a wire brush... but that seemed really aggressive and he seemed to not be gentle. I wouldn't recommend using the drill and wire brush. I actually got a brush from Lowes, but found that it scored the port dividers so I didn't want to risk scoring the valves with it. I scraped everything first with a flat head screwdriver, then used two rounds of carb cleaner (10 min soak each) with some goop-scooping (again with the screwdriver) between solvent soaks. The picks are an absolute necessity because all that carbon suspended in the solvent will collect around the perimeter of the valve where you least want it.
It took a long time to be thorough. Really wish I got some pictures to hold up in honor but I was so out of patience that I just moved right on.
5) Any other indication other than warm idle misfires that something might be amiss? As in, any ideas that it might be comings before the rough idle? I'm not convinced that even cold-start misfires are a good indicator. Reason being that I had warm idle misfires and I still have them after the cleaning. I know from a code that I have a bad O2 sensor, so my theory is that the misfires are caused by rich fuel mixture at idle due to a lack of flow and since my car has been running really lean (my plugs' stems were white) because of the bad O2 sensor I didn't have cold-start issues. Now all O2 sensors go bad over time, leaning out the A/F mixture. If the carbon builds in tandem with this, you may never have that tell-tale cold-start misfire, like me.
I wish there were a more tangible way to know whether you need a carbon cleaning, but unfortunately the only signal I can convey is to pay attention to the way the car accelerates at really low throttle levels. It's time when, in gear (try 2nd or 3rd), and on a flat surface, you give it just a little bit of gas but the car doesn't seem to accelerate. The load on the engine increases (usually tied to the pedal position, or the exhaust volume) but the engine feels hesitant to rev up. That was an effect that was tough to notice before but seems really obvious to me now. It just isn't how a car should behave, especially one with this much torque. Felt like the car was 1000 lbs heavier than it should have been (only at part throttle). The car should rev up no matter how little gas you're giving it. For all intents and purposes, it should feel like your gradma's corolla at really low throttle levels. Not like a '82 beater with 3 cylinders for the first 1/3 of throttle travel.
First, this video. There's another video posted of a 2008.5 mk5 carbon cleaning but I found it to not be so applicable to my '12 mk6. There were quite a few changes, it turns out. This video, while the camera isn't nearly as good, is much more applicable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7c35MJq5e0
Some crappy pics:
Cyl 1-1
Cyl 1-2
Cyl 2-1
Cyl 2-2
Cyl 3-1
Cyl 3-2
Cyl 4 (I gave up trying to get pics)
It's also worth noting how deceiving the valves look. Even when smooth, there was more than a couple mm of carbon caked on there.
A member asked some good questions I wish I knew going into the job, so copying and pasting them here as well.
1) Did you have to depressurize the fuel system before removing the intake/fuel injectors? Yes I did. I followed steelcurtain's tip to run the engine without the HPFP sensor plugged in. The car ran for about 15 seconds, sounding more and more like a euthanized horse (forgive the crude metaphor, it really is an apt comparison), before I shut it off. When I started unscrewing the line from the HPFP a little bit of pressure bled off in a steady, predictable and uneventful way. Of course there was some fuel to soak up afterwards.
2) Did you get new fuel injector seals and use the fuel injector tool to put them on? Yes I got 4 packs of seals but I didn't get the tool. 5 packs would have been smart had something gone wrong, but I was fortunate that it didn't. The combustion chamber seals on the injectors are literally just plastic cylinders so they take a LOT of working and convincing to install. Eventually they'll go on and sit loose on the injector. Which makes installing them interesting - I seated the tips of my channel wrench on the perimeter of the injector and lightly (LIGHTLY) hammered them into the head. So far, no fuel leaks.
3) Did you need to turn the engine over to close some of the valves? If so, how did you do it? Yep, but turning the engine over turned out to be pretty easy. It's easy to grab a hold of the serpentine belt on either side of the alternator to turn the motor over. I did it in either direction. I also unscrewed the plugs a bit to ease the compression as the pistons moved. Otherwise there was a bit too much resistance for that belt.
4) Other than picks and cleaning solvents, did you use any other tools to clean the valves? I saw one where a guy used a drill and a wire brush... but that seemed really aggressive and he seemed to not be gentle. I wouldn't recommend using the drill and wire brush. I actually got a brush from Lowes, but found that it scored the port dividers so I didn't want to risk scoring the valves with it. I scraped everything first with a flat head screwdriver, then used two rounds of carb cleaner (10 min soak each) with some goop-scooping (again with the screwdriver) between solvent soaks. The picks are an absolute necessity because all that carbon suspended in the solvent will collect around the perimeter of the valve where you least want it.
It took a long time to be thorough. Really wish I got some pictures to hold up in honor but I was so out of patience that I just moved right on.
5) Any other indication other than warm idle misfires that something might be amiss? As in, any ideas that it might be comings before the rough idle? I'm not convinced that even cold-start misfires are a good indicator. Reason being that I had warm idle misfires and I still have them after the cleaning. I know from a code that I have a bad O2 sensor, so my theory is that the misfires are caused by rich fuel mixture at idle due to a lack of flow and since my car has been running really lean (my plugs' stems were white) because of the bad O2 sensor I didn't have cold-start issues. Now all O2 sensors go bad over time, leaning out the A/F mixture. If the carbon builds in tandem with this, you may never have that tell-tale cold-start misfire, like me.
I wish there were a more tangible way to know whether you need a carbon cleaning, but unfortunately the only signal I can convey is to pay attention to the way the car accelerates at really low throttle levels. It's time when, in gear (try 2nd or 3rd), and on a flat surface, you give it just a little bit of gas but the car doesn't seem to accelerate. The load on the engine increases (usually tied to the pedal position, or the exhaust volume) but the engine feels hesitant to rev up. That was an effect that was tough to notice before but seems really obvious to me now. It just isn't how a car should behave, especially one with this much torque. Felt like the car was 1000 lbs heavier than it should have been (only at part throttle). The car should rev up no matter how little gas you're giving it. For all intents and purposes, it should feel like your gradma's corolla at really low throttle levels. Not like a '82 beater with 3 cylinders for the first 1/3 of throttle travel.
AAU
Ready to race!
The how-to is great but just want to add some points:
1. Car needs to go in air. I could only loosen the lower bracket screw on the throttle body pipe from underneath. Eight T25 screws hold the cover underneath on, and then it will be readily visible. (I think it is possible to do it from the top--I just didn't see how.)
2. I was having a hard time locating the manifold support bracket. I eventually realized VW did not install the support bracket when they replaced the manifold under warranty. I would advise everyone to look for it after the warranty replacement.
3. No injectors came out with the manifold so did not do seals.
4. When reinstalling the manifold, there are four points to watch on the plastic wiring loom underneath it. On runners 1 and 2 there are two tabs that clip straight up into their respective holes, and on 3 and 4 it clips to the mounting screw shafts of the manifold. If it is lined up correctly they should all snap on fine. Mine had free play because VW did not have it attached properly after the warranty replacement.
3. I did not remove the throttle body from the manifold. I can't say if it made the job harder, I just didn't see what it would offer. All the coolant lines are directly in front of the 10mm triple square on the support bracket anyways.
4. Support bracket install - There has to be a better way, but anyways:
a. After manifold was sitting on injector seals, I brought the bracket in from the driver's side, put it behind the respective wiring and threaded the 13mm nut on to hold it in place.
b. I used a magnetic pickup to bring the 10mm triple square/XZN in from the front and place it in its hole.
c. I installed the seven T30s and two 10mm nuts fully to seat the manifold.
d. I was able to get two fingers on the 10mm XZN from the driver's side and thread it in as far I could.
e. There should finally be enough room to fit a 3/8 flex ratchet in from the driver's side. My 10mm XZN socket was not long, but if you have a shorter one it will be better. More stubby the better.
5. Just use a 24mm socket on the crankshaft bolt to turn it. Pulling on a belt seems silly and I didn't remove any spark plugs. Firing order is 1-3-4-2 IIRC.
1. Car needs to go in air. I could only loosen the lower bracket screw on the throttle body pipe from underneath. Eight T25 screws hold the cover underneath on, and then it will be readily visible. (I think it is possible to do it from the top--I just didn't see how.)
2. I was having a hard time locating the manifold support bracket. I eventually realized VW did not install the support bracket when they replaced the manifold under warranty. I would advise everyone to look for it after the warranty replacement.
3. No injectors came out with the manifold so did not do seals.
4. When reinstalling the manifold, there are four points to watch on the plastic wiring loom underneath it. On runners 1 and 2 there are two tabs that clip straight up into their respective holes, and on 3 and 4 it clips to the mounting screw shafts of the manifold. If it is lined up correctly they should all snap on fine. Mine had free play because VW did not have it attached properly after the warranty replacement.
3. I did not remove the throttle body from the manifold. I can't say if it made the job harder, I just didn't see what it would offer. All the coolant lines are directly in front of the 10mm triple square on the support bracket anyways.
4. Support bracket install - There has to be a better way, but anyways:
a. After manifold was sitting on injector seals, I brought the bracket in from the driver's side, put it behind the respective wiring and threaded the 13mm nut on to hold it in place.
b. I used a magnetic pickup to bring the 10mm triple square/XZN in from the front and place it in its hole.
c. I installed the seven T30s and two 10mm nuts fully to seat the manifold.
d. I was able to get two fingers on the 10mm XZN from the driver's side and thread it in as far I could.
e. There should finally be enough room to fit a 3/8 flex ratchet in from the driver's side. My 10mm XZN socket was not long, but if you have a shorter one it will be better. More stubby the better.
5. Just use a 24mm socket on the crankshaft bolt to turn it. Pulling on a belt seems silly and I didn't remove any spark plugs. Firing order is 1-3-4-2 IIRC.
Resurrecting an old thread since it helped me get this job done today. 109,000 miles, original intake manifold and never had carbon cleaning before.
Had no real issues after reading this thread and watching various YouTube videos to compare how different mechanics go about things. There wasn't as much carbon as I expected to see, but it took a while to get rid of it. I used the GM chemical and various picks. The worst area of carbon for me was on the upper valve stems, where it caked on the stems. I pulled all four injectors (only two came out with manifold) to clean their tips and install new seals. Used a wrench on the crank pulley to turn the engine. The whole process went well overall, just took longer than planned to clean the valves. I took too long on the first 3, then had a better method for the final one after turning the crank to close the last dirty cylinder. No problems with connectors or bolts/screws that held me up for more than a few minutes. I tried to install the support bracket before resintalling the manifold and kept having issues getting the lower bolt to thread. Moved on, got manifold mounted, and the bracket took two seconds to install by threading the nut at top of bracket first, then the lower bolt threaded in fine. I chose to remove the throttle body which made the bracket part easy.
I recommend anyone interested in doing this job watch the Humble Mechanic's YouTube video as well as the one on the prior page of this thread where the Russian mechanic does this. The Russian records the whole process and the camper person does a good job of showing everything, while Humble Mechanic explains things but used one fixed camera angle and didn't show the entire process on camera. A cordless power ratchet tool helps, as well as having a good supply of various picks and socket extensions.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Had no real issues after reading this thread and watching various YouTube videos to compare how different mechanics go about things. There wasn't as much carbon as I expected to see, but it took a while to get rid of it. I used the GM chemical and various picks. The worst area of carbon for me was on the upper valve stems, where it caked on the stems. I pulled all four injectors (only two came out with manifold) to clean their tips and install new seals. Used a wrench on the crank pulley to turn the engine. The whole process went well overall, just took longer than planned to clean the valves. I took too long on the first 3, then had a better method for the final one after turning the crank to close the last dirty cylinder. No problems with connectors or bolts/screws that held me up for more than a few minutes. I tried to install the support bracket before resintalling the manifold and kept having issues getting the lower bolt to thread. Moved on, got manifold mounted, and the bracket took two seconds to install by threading the nut at top of bracket first, then the lower bolt threaded in fine. I chose to remove the throttle body which made the bracket part easy.
I recommend anyone interested in doing this job watch the Humble Mechanic's YouTube video as well as the one on the prior page of this thread where the Russian mechanic does this. The Russian records the whole process and the camper person does a good job of showing everything, while Humble Mechanic explains things but used one fixed camera angle and didn't show the entire process on camera. A cordless power ratchet tool helps, as well as having a good supply of various picks and socket extensions.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
B6JoeS4
Ready to race!
I did my carbon cleaning yesterday on my car......a couple tips
-to make it easier to turn the motor over to open and close valves, you can use a ratchet with a 15/16" socket on the crank pulley to turn it. Easy to sneak your left arm in there from the top. I found it almost impossible to turn the motor by hand with the serpentine bel, even with the spark plugs removed.
-to get to the 17mm nut on the fuel line underneath the manifold, use a crows foot socket and come in from the front, just to the right of the throttle body.
-use a shop vac with a McDonald's straw Jerry rigged at the end of it for sucking out the bits of carbon. The aerosol version of Berryman's chem tool with 15 minutes of soak and wire brushes is the best way to clean them IMO. Use small metal pick tools for cleaning by the valve seat and up where the valve stem goes into the head. Flush with lots of brake cleaners while using the vacuum to suck everything out to make sure you get rid of all the strays. I've done several cleanings on various VAG cars using this method.
-to make it easier to turn the motor over to open and close valves, you can use a ratchet with a 15/16" socket on the crank pulley to turn it. Easy to sneak your left arm in there from the top. I found it almost impossible to turn the motor by hand with the serpentine bel, even with the spark plugs removed.
-to get to the 17mm nut on the fuel line underneath the manifold, use a crows foot socket and come in from the front, just to the right of the throttle body.
-use a shop vac with a McDonald's straw Jerry rigged at the end of it for sucking out the bits of carbon. The aerosol version of Berryman's chem tool with 15 minutes of soak and wire brushes is the best way to clean them IMO. Use small metal pick tools for cleaning by the valve seat and up where the valve stem goes into the head. Flush with lots of brake cleaners while using the vacuum to suck everything out to make sure you get rid of all the strays. I've done several cleanings on various VAG cars using this method.
Just did this today. Here's my "expert advice"
It took me 3 hours total from removal of intake mani to test drive. Did the reinstall in the dark. Its really NOT THAT BAD of a job at all. I was a bit nervous digging in that I would have to drive the truck tomorrow, but no problems timing wise. Any even novice mechanic should be able to do this on a Saturday. Don't be scared.
Tools I used were the same as OP with one HUGE exception. I used a universal gun cleaning kit to do the work for me. Barrel and bore brushes are fantastic for the head ports and valves. The dental pic that comes with most gun cleaning kits was super easy to scrap out all the goop. The bore/barrel pads made cleanup easy. Great 20 dollar investment if you are planning on doing this job. And a wire golf club cleaning brush worked great for the flaps.
I used Carb and choke cleaner. This was like cleaning the oldest grimiest bong you've ever seen. Not a bad job at all though.
Notes: Be careful not to drop either of the 2 M6 nuts. You will NEVER get them back unless you are ok with pulling the water pump. Take my word for it.
Reinstallation took me half the time as removal of everything. And the cleaning itself took about an hour and a half.
There was easily 1-2 mm of caked on carbon on every surface. 70000 miles. Intake mani replaced under warranty at 50000. Fairly confident no valve cleaning was done at that time.
Car went apeshit bananas on first startup. After about 45 seconds of idle time it settled down, and after clearing codes for initial startup misfires it runs like it never has since I've owned it.
More advice if I can offer it: Get 1 or 2 injector seal kits from your local dealer in case you pop off a seal or tear one-only if you don't plan on replacing all of them. I bought 4 kits, but only replaced the blue top seals.
I didn't remove the TB. Saw no need to do it. My support bracket was installed up top, left loose below as said in a post above. Likely part of the TSB repair. It's a pain in the butt to tighten. I saw no need to mess with it.
This is a great write-up, and I would like to thank the OP for doing this for the community.
It took me 3 hours total from removal of intake mani to test drive. Did the reinstall in the dark. Its really NOT THAT BAD of a job at all. I was a bit nervous digging in that I would have to drive the truck tomorrow, but no problems timing wise. Any even novice mechanic should be able to do this on a Saturday. Don't be scared.
Tools I used were the same as OP with one HUGE exception. I used a universal gun cleaning kit to do the work for me. Barrel and bore brushes are fantastic for the head ports and valves. The dental pic that comes with most gun cleaning kits was super easy to scrap out all the goop. The bore/barrel pads made cleanup easy. Great 20 dollar investment if you are planning on doing this job. And a wire golf club cleaning brush worked great for the flaps.
I used Carb and choke cleaner. This was like cleaning the oldest grimiest bong you've ever seen. Not a bad job at all though.
Notes: Be careful not to drop either of the 2 M6 nuts. You will NEVER get them back unless you are ok with pulling the water pump. Take my word for it.
Reinstallation took me half the time as removal of everything. And the cleaning itself took about an hour and a half.
There was easily 1-2 mm of caked on carbon on every surface. 70000 miles. Intake mani replaced under warranty at 50000. Fairly confident no valve cleaning was done at that time.
Car went apeshit bananas on first startup. After about 45 seconds of idle time it settled down, and after clearing codes for initial startup misfires it runs like it never has since I've owned it.
More advice if I can offer it: Get 1 or 2 injector seal kits from your local dealer in case you pop off a seal or tear one-only if you don't plan on replacing all of them. I bought 4 kits, but only replaced the blue top seals.
I didn't remove the TB. Saw no need to do it. My support bracket was installed up top, left loose below as said in a post above. Likely part of the TSB repair. It's a pain in the butt to tighten. I saw no need to mess with it.
This is a great write-up, and I would like to thank the OP for doing this for the community.
twovalvekid
New member
Might be doing this myself soon. Getting cold misfires but everything basically clears up when warm. Even idles perfectly. Recently did R8 coils and fresh plugs and still does it so this is next on the list.
The injector seal info is just basically incase anything gets damaged on the way out?
The injector seal info is just basically incase anything gets damaged on the way out?
yeah. if you're going to do the r&r and valve cleaning-which you should, just spend 20 bux on a couple of injector seal kits from your local dealership. no need to replace all of them, but i can almost guarantee you will tear or disfigure one to the point where it doesn't seal.