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What do I need for front caliper upgrade?

gugu1981

Passed Driver's Ed
"The reason I have GTI brakes on my car is because I tow with the car, and the extra weight could potentially overcome the stock brakes."

Just an FYI... as you increase speed you are also increasing the amount of braking power needed to stop the car. I will add to that by saying that stopping or slowing safely requires modulation if you are setting up for a turn (as opposed to panic stopping). Big brakes provide that. I have driven my car at the track with stock brakes and with modified Golf R brakes and the difference is amazing and I can brake much later coming in to turns. So I have larger brakes for spiritied canyon driving and track use. Driving non-spirited in town driving, stock brakes work just fine.

maximum friction provided by the tires does NOT increase as speed increase. So if your stock brakes can overcome the friction provided by the tires that you are using (by locking it up), you have adequate braking power.

setting up for a turn and spirited canyon driving are both testing the consistency of the brakes under repeated use. I suspect your Golf R brakes truly shines when you are several laps in, and the stock brakes would have overheated by that point.

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6446_6565
Here's some tests done on a Z, there is a nice table at the bottom with the numbers.

Even though the article made it sound like the 332mm stoptech made the car stop much faster from 100mph, the stopping distance only had about 1.5% difference(the temperature was drastically different, which again, points to consistent braking power under repeated use), and that was the average of 10 runs.

Granted, the stock brakes on the Z, regardless of model, is going to be significantly better than what's on the Golf. But to me, the tests performed by that article demonstrate that the stopping distance is NOT (significantly) shorter with a big brake kit.

Anyways, this is all internet debate, each person's experience may be different. I am merely going to point to the data, the readers can drawn their own conclusions.


Peter
 
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MLue1

Drag Racing Champion
VW braking system is pretty good on the mk6, especially with the early cars with the larger rear brakerotors. They also use the rear brakes agressively compared to other manufacturers to help out the fronts, so over all braking is better but we have to replace the rear pads more often.
 

Cadubya

Autocross Newbie
The OEM braking system is more than adequate at generating the necessary braking force required to overcome the friction of the tire and the road. It's not until full on racing compound tires are being used that more braking force would be necessary. Because at that point the stickier tire grips the road better, thus you'd need more braking force to overcome the tires friction with the road. Aftermarket big brake kits aren't generally designed to increase braking ability, they are designed for braking repeatability and feel. They allow you to get the same braking ability over and over again. If they were designed for increased braking ability you'd just be able to invoke the ABS quicker.
 

MLue1

Drag Racing Champion
Pedal feel is a great point, everyone is focused on max braking but pedal feel is important as well, for those that actually race wheel to wheel it is more important than max braking.
 

davserbic

Ready to race!
What would be the largest size rotor that you can run on the stock 2.5L brakes + calipers?

Also — just to confirm yet again. Are GTI Brakes (Calipers+Pads) the same as Golf Brakes (Calipers + Pads)? Just maybe color difference?
 

gugu1981

Passed Driver's Ed
What would be the largest size rotor that you can run on the stock 2.5L brakes + calipers?

Also — just to confirm yet again. Are GTI Brakes (Calipers+Pads) the same as Golf Brakes (Calipers + Pads)? Just maybe color difference?



GTI rotors are 312mm, and Golf rotors are 288mm. I don't know what the maximum rotor size you can run on stock Golf brakes. I have not heard of anyone changing to bigger rotors without changing anything else. Not sure what benefit that would provide, since in that scenario, the pads are the same and held at the same place.

Caliper and Pads are the same across GTI and Golf. The only differences are the color of the caliper, the caliper carrier, and the rotor.


Peter
 

davserbic

Ready to race!
GTI rotors are 312mm, and Golf rotors are 288mm. I don't know what the maximum rotor size you can run on stock Golf brakes. I have not heard of anyone changing to bigger rotors without changing anything else. Not sure what benefit that would provide, since in that scenario, the pads are the same and held at the same place.

Caliper and Pads are the same across GTI and Golf. The only differences are the color of the caliper, the caliper carrier, and the rotor.


Peter

Thanks for the info Peter! That leads me to anther question then —

Any idea why the caliper carriers are different if the calipers + pads are the same? If I upgrade my Golf rotors to GTI rotors (288mm to 312mm) will I need to change the caliper carrier as well?
 

gugu1981

Passed Driver's Ed
Thanks for the info Peter! That leads me to anther question then —

Any idea why the caliper carriers are different if the calipers + pads are the same? If I upgrade my Golf rotors to GTI rotors (288mm to 312mm) will I need to change the caliper carrier as well?

On the GTI/GLI, the caliper carrier moves the caliper further out from the center, with the larger rotors to go with it. Because the caliper is further from the center, it provides more torque(not engine torque, but the physics term torque) to slow the car down (even while the caliper is identical to the Golf/Jetta)

Peter
 

davserbic

Ready to race!
On the GTI/GLI, the caliper carrier moves the caliper further out from the center, with the larger rotors to go with it. Because the caliper is further from the center, it provides more torque(not engine torque, but the physics term torque) to slow the car down (even while the caliper is identical to the Golf/Jetta)

Peter

That makes sense — so then you would indeed need GTI / GLI caliper carriers if wanting to upgrade to the larger GTI rotors.
 
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