So when will APR give us an E85 tune?

Muerte_X said:

stock to stage 1 is about 20 to 30whp depending on the dyno, stage 2 is another 20 to 30whp increase over that. Another 20whp sounds pretty good to me. That's at least 40 over a stage 1 tune, which is a bigger jump than stock to stage 1.of course every dyno is different, but still it's a pretty noticebe difference

Downpipe is standard for stage 2 for every company

But if you don't already have GIAC, I agree, that's a lot of money. I already had GIAC, and have e85 in my area, so I love it

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You're right. It's a lot. I was comparing stage 2 Apr/giac with downpipe to giac clutch buster with downpipe.THAT doesn't seem quite worth it to switch.

NolaMKVI said:

I think the question is..

How much modification will it take to even run e85 first (time/money/parts) and THEN tack on tuning research, testing, and finally a finalized product/kit?

How much more power will it make on a moderate build (k04 or higher)?

How much profit can be made from this and is there even enough interest in the community to even start research..?

I would love easier ways to go e85 but from what I heard/read/searched the juice isnt worth the squeeze for our cars, unless its some crazy insane build or youre just rich as shit and dont care lol

Do I want to see a kit/tuning option, yes.
Will we see a kit/tuning option, probably not..

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Parts should be bigger injectors (I believe some big turbo builds are using the Cobalt injectors which flow about 30% more than our stock ones) and an upgraded fuel pump. That is not a super expensive part wise.

Interesting! too bad we don't..

http://fourtitude.com/features/Feature_Cars_7/feature-e85-b8-5-audi-allroad-e85-k04-development-car-by-apr/

The problem with e85 for these cars is that the k04 exists. Want to max stock rods with the broadest possible powerband? K04. Swap the turbo, pick up an OTS tune and you're done. There's a really narrow use case for e85 on these cars and it's as a stepping stone to k04.

E85 on k03 would be cheaper, but wouldn't make as much power as a k04. To make more power, you're talking injectors, an additional pump, an upgraded HPFP and then you'll be doing 10mpg. There are probably other limitations that I can't foresee. Potentially, the ECU just wouldn't be able to advance spark far enough to utilize e85 in this capacity (15lbs of boost and 2x the fuel flow as stock). Remember, it takes 1.4x the e85 to make as much power as e10 gasoline.

e85 may be a good candidate for a k04 build to max stock rods as an alternative to ethanol, but w/m will be better for the engine in the long run and you'll still probably need something like APR's additional LPFP to get the most out of it.

Spyder368 said:

Parts should be bigger injectors (I believe some big turbo builds are using the Cobalt injectors which flow about 30% more than our stock ones) and an upgraded fuel pump. That is not a super expensive part wise.

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What about premature fuel line corrosion? wouldn't you have to upgrade every part of the fuel system to be e85 friendly? or do the lines, etc don't matter?

Just going off of what Ive heard and read.

lilonespaz said:

APR has said on a couple different threads that they weren't interested in doing a E85 tune for our cars.

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What's more correct is that we're cautious on this subject. Internally we've tuned E85 on quite a few cars, and it's awesome for making power. There are some drawbacks though. Without an E85 sensor, or an ECU that fully understands ethanol has been installed, you can run into troubles, and some of those may be quite dangerous for the motor. Some cars have these items in place, so it was a no brainer to make the software (ex: b8.5 A4/A5). Just fill up, and the ECU figures out the content and blends accordingly. But for cars without this sensor, or something else in the ECU to help figure out what's installed, it gets tricky. Bottom line, we understand why the fuel is attractive, and we quite like it ourselves. We're fully doing our due diligence on this topic, which is much easier now that we've expanded our calibration team! :thumbsup:

NolaMKVI said:

What about premature fuel line corrosion? wouldn't you have to upgrade every part of the fuel system to be e85 friendly? or do the lines, etc don't matter?

Just going off of what Ive heard and read.

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Any car built within the last decade has a fuel system designed to handle ethanol.

Arin@APR said:

What's more correct is that we're cautious on this subject. Internally we've tuned E85 on quite a few cars, and it's awesome for making power. There are some drawbacks though. Without an E85 sensor, or an ECU that fully understands ethanol has been installed, you can run into troubles, and some of those may be quite dangerous for the motor. Some cars have these items in place, so it was a no brainer to make the software (ex: b8.5 A4/A5). Just fill up, and the ECU figures out the content and blends accordingly. But for cars without this sensor, or something else in the ECU to help figure out what's installed, it gets tricky. Bottom line, we understand why the fuel is attractive, and we quite like it ourselves. We're fully doing our due diligence on this topic, which is much easier now that we've expanded our calibration team! :thumbsup:

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+1 The E85 results are making me look at an A6 2.0T as the next family hauler. Nice work on that tune guys.

I have run an E85 blend with the GIAC 100 octane map, there is a discussion here: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170891

Arin@APR said:

What's more correct is that we're cautious on this subject. Internally we've tuned E85 on quite a few cars, and it's awesome for making power. There are some drawbacks though. Without an E85 sensor, or an ECU that fully understands ethanol has been installed, you can run into troubles, and some of those may be quite dangerous for the motor. Some cars have these items in place, so it was a no brainer to make the software (ex: b8.5 A4/A5). Just fill up, and the ECU figures out the content and blends accordingly. But for cars without this sensor, or something else in the ECU to help figure out what's installed, it gets tricky. Bottom line, we understand why the fuel is attractive, and we quite like it ourselves. We're fully doing our due diligence on this topic, which is much easier now that we've expanded our calibration team! :thumbsup:

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Thanks for chiming in!

Arin@APR said:

What's more correct is that we're cautious on this subject. Internally we've tuned E85 on quite a few cars, and it's awesome for making power. There are some drawbacks though. Without an E85 sensor, or an ECU that fully understands ethanol has been installed, you can run into troubles, and some of those may be quite dangerous for the motor. Some cars have these items in place, so it was a no brainer to make the software (ex: b8.5 A4/A5). Just fill up, and the ECU figures out the content and blends accordingly. But for cars without this sensor, or something else in the ECU to help figure out what's installed, it gets tricky. Bottom line, we understand why the fuel is attractive, and we quite like it ourselves. We're fully doing our due diligence on this topic, which is much easier now that we've expanded our calibration team! :thumbsup:

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Thanks for the update. I would certainly be VERY interested in this and were I to be shopping for tunes an ethanol option would be an instant selling point.

I would be very interested in a e31 or e47 tune. There have been a lot of Thortons popping up lately in my area and they all carry e85. I have a few friends who do e47 an mix in their speed3's and it makes a bit of a difference. I would not want to run straight E85 due to the corrosive properties but wouldn't mind doing a mix every so often.

Sherlock997 said:

I would be very interested in a e31 or e47 tune. There have been a lot of Thortons popping up lately in my area and they all carry e85. I have a few friends who do e47 an mix in their speed3's and it makes a bit of a difference. I would not want to run straight E85 due to the corrosive properties but wouldn't mind doing a mix every so often.

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That's precisely why the sensor is important. It's pretty much impossible to consistently get a precise ethanol percentage.