Tk_mkv1
Go Kart Champion
i was gonna get that on my tsx fuck!
6
2013 MK6 vs. 2009 Civic Si (FA5)
- Thread starter vinyvolingy
- Start date
i was gonna get that on my tsx fuck!
Okay first a catback does NOTHING except make noise so that's not making his car faster unless he had a upgraded DP also. Even that won't do much on a NA car. Second, a CAI might give him 6-8 hp if he's lucky. Third, his tune might give him another 10. So at the most he could be pushing in the neighbourhood of 218hp/150tq at the crank. Once you go stage 1 and intake, you should pull on him by AT LEAST a car length. Especially with the DSG. Also try racing him from a standstill and by the time he gets into VTEC, you'll be long gone even if he gets those extra mods you mentioned. Good luck and post vids!
There is no downpipe on a Civic because it's NA. The K20Z3 engine has a single header which is an L shape and then connects to the cat underneath the engine followed by a mid pipe, which then runs back to the rear section followed by the muffler. When swapping out the entire exhaust on this engine to a 70 mm they should be able to pick up approx. 10 hp with no other modifications. In stock form the car has 197 hp and 139 lb tq to the fly. However with some basic mods as you listed above this is a realistic outcome. 200 whp and 155 ft tq
However, this won't happen till approx 4.5k rpm and pull all the way to redline. If you're gonna race him again go stage one and start from a dig and you'll have him.
greasyginzo
Go Kart Champion
I was shocked how much power it gave the car.
Tk_mkv1
Go Kart Champion
and i never experienced it
i luckily traded the car and got the gti months later, it already passed 130k when i wanted it
excelevant
Go Kart Champion
^ I can't find a dyno on that DC Race Header anywhere.. what gives
The header is where the real power is to be made with the k20s. Intake and catback will provide minimal gains but the header pulls it all together. And VitViper is one of the best tuners in the Honda game. That definitely had something to do with it.
I/H/E + tune will yield anywhere from 30-40whp on the k20. That is more than enough to keep up with a stage 2 GTI and even beat one
False. When I was i/h/e tuned (by vitviper btw) I easily beat stage 1 GTIs. I only ran a stage 2 GTI one time and we were literally neck and neck from 40 to about 120.
It's all about quality parts and tune. 3.5" intake, catless race header, 3" catback, flashpro tuned by someone who knows what they are doing, and the car will be competitive with stage 2 GTIs... likely a driver's race.
With shitty parts and a shitty tune a bolt on si will have trouble running away from a stock GTI.
False.
If $600 in is spending limit, then I agree. But I have no idea why it would be. Also, that's not factoring in that the GTI costs at least $1500 more to start.
I/H/E + tune will yield anywhere from 30-40whp on the k20. That is more than enough to keep up with a stage 2 GTI and even beat one
False. When I was i/h/e tuned (by vitviper btw) I easily beat stage 1 GTIs. I only ran a stage 2 GTI one time and we were literally neck and neck from 40 to about 120.
It's all about quality parts and tune. 3.5" intake, catless race header, 3" catback, flashpro tuned by someone who knows what they are doing, and the car will be competitive with stage 2 GTIs... likely a driver's race.
With shitty parts and a shitty tune a bolt on si will have trouble running away from a stock GTI.
False.
If $600 in is spending limit, then I agree. But I have no idea why it would be. Also, that's not factoring in that the GTI costs at least $1500 more to start.
The DC race header is actually one of the weaker performing headers for the k20.
excelevant
Go Kart Champion
Can you link me to the hottest header in the biz with some dyno results? Just curious. I <3 Hondas
I don't have any links to dynos or anything... but the Skunk2 Megapower header is easily the best off the shelf header for these cars.
excelevant
Go Kart Champion
:thumbup: Thanks
Brinkmen
VW NUT!
You just contradicted yourself there. If its fast enough to beat one, how come you were only neck and neck? I'd love to see your dyno sheet for those numbers you just quoted. Video or it didn't happen. How much does it cost for all those mods? I bet its closer to $2000 or more.
Factory Performance Specs that matter:
FA5: Weight 2,877 lbs, 197hp/139tq at the crank. Power to weight: 14lbs per hp, 20lbs per tq. Measured by MT 0-60 = 6.4 seconds. (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2012_honda_civic_si_sedan_first_test/)
MkVI GTI DSG: Weight 3,113 lb, 200hp, 207tq at the crank. Power to weight: 15.5 per hp, 15lbs per tq. Measured by MT 0-60 = 5.8 seconds. (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/112_0910_2010_volkswagen_gti_test/viewall.html)
As you can see what the GTI lacks in HP for its weight, it much more than makes up for with torque.
Lets have a few examples here: :fighting0030:
#1: The non mod person. The majority of people who buy GTIs and Civic SI aren't going to modify their cars at all for warranty reasons and/or they just don't care about any more power. In which case GTI > SI. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie.
#2: The budget modifier. Budget: $600. Type of person who wants a bit better than OEM. Not as common, but still a lot of these type of people out there. Stage 1 for GTI. GTI>SI. (Plus you just agreed with this one.)
#3: Even less common. People who want about the best you can get without more major (turbo, etc) mods. Stage 2 can easily be had for the smart shopper for under $1000 total (including Stage 1). GTI>SI.
#4: The rare option. People who have around $3000 (Total) to spend. A smart shopper can get a K04 for under $2000. APRs numbers for this is 356hp/351tq. (http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans_20_tsi_k04.html) Happens to be on sale right now brand new for under $2400. Can easily be had for closer to $2000 or less if used. Likely still GTI>SI. But I admit I don't know as much what you can do to a FA5 mod wise for less than $3000, but I still highly doubt you will get numbers that high for that amount of cash. Even if you supercharge or turbo one. I'd be interested to see some numbers if you still want to claim SI>GTI on that one.
#5: The extremely rare option. I agree on this one When you get up into the 400hp + range, it can cost more to modify a GTI. But how many people get up there? Few for either cars. :iono:
Most people don't spend much more than $1000 if they are going to mod their cars.
Seriously why are you even here? Seems like you're just trolling because I've seen you doing this stuff on other threads, mainly in the vs section. :thumbdown: I'm not on your Honda forums talking shit about your cars like I'm the authority on everything and about how ours are better. Even though they are.
Even if you have numbers to back up your claims (which you won't for examples 1-3 for sure), nobody here really cares. End of day, bro. Its personal preference and what actually happens on the street. We like our cars better for many reasons. That is why we are on GolfMk6.com, not ithinkiknoweverythingaboutvwsbecauseidriveamodifiedhonda.com. :w00t:
iwannagofast
Not a Newbie
I agree with BlownFa5, I have spent enough time on here and Golfmkv to know that he knows his shit, and a fully bolted/tuned Civic SI is right on par with a fully bolted/tuned GTI. Sometimes the civic wins and sometime the GTI wins. Shit, I have seen some SI's walk the shit out of stage 2 MKVI GTIs and also seen it the other way around.
So, although it might cost a little more at first to get the SI up to a tuned GTIs level, to throw a broad blanket over it and say a tuned GTI will always beat any n/a SI is just flat out false. Plus, i'm not a fan of doing cost comparisons. Who cares if one person spent a little more than another, we are talking bolt on tuned SI vs bolt on tuned GTI's, not who spent $1000 less than the other person.
So, although it might cost a little more at first to get the SI up to a tuned GTIs level, to throw a broad blanket over it and say a tuned GTI will always beat any n/a SI is just flat out false. Plus, i'm not a fan of doing cost comparisons. Who cares if one person spent a little more than another, we are talking bolt on tuned SI vs bolt on tuned GTI's, not who spent $1000 less than the other person.
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XGC75
Go Kart Champion
Fair enough. My comment was based off an earlier account of "fully bolted" fa5 vs stage 2 and the stage 2 took the civic by a couple car lengths. I don't recall if headers were involved but I do remember intake exhaust and tune.
How about addl mods on the GTI, though? W/M, IC, intake, TOP and TIP. IHI Stage 2's can make anywhere between 240 and 260whp. That's a broad range to be called a driver's race. Edit: don't forget the 2dr/4dr 100lb difference.
butchered by autocucumber