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Old 11-22-2016, 11:59 AM   #99
CHerna
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Depends on which one since they have a lot more variation than our standard K04 builds, but yeah judging on the numbers a K04 car is a good match for most mild-BT ST's.
Good to know. There are a few BT Focus ST's and Fusions in the area. K04 here I come.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:21 PM   #100
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Just ran across my first unlucky victim this morning, a stock (appearance-wise, other than tint) ST, that decided to come up fast on my tail and egged me on. I took off from the light in the right lane (first person in line), she was in the left lane behind a car. The car behind me trailed so she powered through and got on me. I gave it a little juice and she held to me, so I opened it up and put a couple buses on her...she refused to come up next to me after that. I was going to invite her to the local ST group too, they are all pretty cool guys/gals...
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:39 PM   #101
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I put 1 full car on an ST the other week in just third gear...thought they were faster. From what I could see it had exhaust and was lowered.

The other night I went through 3rd and 4th with another mk6 GTI, put a car on him by third and fourth I put another car on him. He had an exhaust from what I could see, I assume he was tuned but no way for me to know.

I also raced an RS4 about a month ago, he was in fourth and I was in third, I beat him badly. I think it was an 09 or a similar year
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:50 PM   #102
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I love horny ST's all looking to get spanked..... gotta wait till spring though.... cars sleeping :|
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:21 PM   #103
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I put 1 full car on an ST the other week in just third gear...thought they were faster. From what I could see it had exhaust and was lowered.

The other night I went through 3rd and 4th with another mk6 GTI, put a car on him by third and fourth I put another car on him. He had an exhaust from what I could see, I assume he was tuned but no way for me to know.

I also raced an RS4 about a month ago, he was in fourth and I was in third, I beat him badly. I think it was an 09 or a similar year
RS4? As in Audi? He must have been way out of his power band if you beat him badly. Stage 1 does not have enough power to pull one of those in 3rd gear speeds.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:27 PM   #104
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RS4? As in Audi? He must have been way out of his power band if you beat him badly. Stage 1 does not have enough power to pull one of those in 3rd gear speeds.
Yeah I call BS.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:45 PM   #105
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RS4? As in Audi? He must have been way out of his power band if you beat him badly. Stage 1 does not have enough power to pull one of those in 3rd gear speeds.
He didn't saw which year though...could have been a B5 for all we know.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:36 PM   #106
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I was behind an ST getting onto a freeway. He was in front of me and I basically opened up in 2nd gear and ran through third. I know he was on it because of the black puff of smoke from his exhaust. He didn't pull away, I didn't get closer, we were as dead even as it gets.

Either my stock car is a factory ringer or STs are massively overrated by Ford. I know VW under-rated these to a degree, but it's certainly not under-rated by 50 hp. If just a tune puts my car at about what the ST is rated at the ST would get pulled pretty effortlessly.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:36 PM   #107
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Just ran across my first unlucky victim this morning, a stock (appearance-wise, other than tint) ST, that decided to come up fast on my tail and egged me on. I took off from the light in the right lane (first person in line), she was in the left lane behind a car. The car behind me trailed so she powered through and got on me. I gave it a little juice and she held to me, so I opened it up and put a couple buses on her...she refused to come up next to me after that. I was going to invite her to the local ST group too, they are all pretty cool guys/gals...
I actually found out who this person was and they are in the local ST group. Said she was late for work but commented how quick my car was, said she's seen me a couple times when she was in her mustang and will "look for me a little more now and gun for me"


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I was behind an ST getting onto a freeway. He was in front of me and I basically opened up in 2nd gear and ran through third. I know he was on it because of the black puff of smoke from his exhaust. He didn't pull away, I didn't get closer, we were as dead even as it gets.

Either my stock car is a factory ringer or STs are massively overrated by Ford. I know VW under-rated these to a degree, but it's certainly not under-rated by 50 hp. If just a tune puts my car at about what the ST is rated at the ST would get pulled pretty effortlessly.
They are overrated. Ford rates their car at the crank, so while they advertise 250, it actually only sees between 220-235whp. At the same time, VW typically advertises their power to the wheel, and I believe they underrate their car, as we have guys seeing 210whp on a stock car (mk6). Couple that with the fact that the ST weighs 1-200lbs more, and the fact that a good portion of their power isn't always available (overboost only works for a few seconds) and you start to see why they tend to not hold up to scrutiny.

I've mentioned this before, but when I was on stage 2 pre-update, 91 oct so probably around 235whp/285wtq, I ran a stage 3 e30 ST that had dyno'd 280whp/360wtq, 55-110, put 5-6 cars on him. He knew we were racing, he was most definitely trying, I've talked to him multiple times about it after, he had zero excuses. They just don't perform like their numbers suggest.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:00 PM   #108
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RS4? As in Audi? He must have been way out of his power band if you beat him badly. Stage 1 does not have enough power to pull one of those in 3rd gear speeds.


The guy said after the race he was in fourth gear and figured he would beat me bad without having to really downshift into 3rd. He also was kind of a weird guy, man bun wearing euro loose shirt type of dude, he said repeatedly it was the engine out of the R8. I raced him a few times and it was the same result every time. You guys can call BS, lol idc, not trying to win any popularity contests here. I looked up the model years after I got home that night, it was the B7.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:17 PM   #109
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The guy said after the race he was in fourth gear and figured he would beat me bad without having to really downshift into 3rd. He also was kind of a weird guy, man bun wearing euro loose shirt type of dude, he said repeatedly it was the engine out of the R8. I raced him a few times and it was the same result every time. You guys can call BS, lol idc, not trying to win any popularity contests here. I looked up the model years after I got home that night, it was the B7.
Well if it was the B7 RS4 then yes it is the 4.2 V8 from the R8 first gen, so he's not wrong. I could see in forth gear him losing, sure.... but if he was in proper gear, 95 percent sure he'd have left you wanting more.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:59 AM   #110
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Well if it was the B7 RS4 then yes it is the 4.2 V8 from the R8 first gen, so he's not wrong. I could see in forth gear him losing, sure.... but if he was in proper gear, 95 percent sure he'd have left you wanting more.


I agree, would have been nice to see the heads up race though. idc about losing, I'd rather lose a heads up race then win a race that isn't equal. Losing drives the thirst for mods!
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:12 PM   #111
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They are overrated. Ford rates their car at the crank, so while they advertise 250, it actually only sees between 220-235whp. At the same time, VW typically advertises their power to the wheel, and I believe they underrate their car, as we have guys seeing 210whp on a stock car (mk6). Couple that with the fact that the ST weighs 1-200lbs more, and the fact that a good portion of their power isn't always available (overboost only works for a few seconds) and you start to see why they tend to not hold up to scrutiny.

I've mentioned this before, but when I was on stage 2 pre-update, 91 oct so probably around 235whp/285wtq, I ran a stage 3 e30 ST that had dyno'd 280whp/360wtq, 55-110, put 5-6 cars on him. He knew we were racing, he was most definitely trying, I've talked to him multiple times about it after, he had zero excuses. They just don't perform like their numbers suggest.
Man, I don't get it. The ~150 lb weight difference doesn't account for that forward thrust differential. I know the GTI has a gearing advantage...

2nd gear @ 6500 RPMs
GTI (6MT): 59 MPH
FoST: 62 MPH

3rd gear @ 6500 RPMs
GTI (6MT): 84 MPH
FoST: 91 MPH

4th gear @ 6500 RPMs
GTI (6MT): 111 MPH
FoST: 118 MPH

....but that difference in weight and gearing doesn't seem like it should overcome a ~45 hp deficit.

Stratified Tuning's site shows that the numbers he claimed for the ST check out. How sure are you about your numbers? I have to believe that the dyno that produced those numbers for that setup read on the low side.

I know this is a huge simplification, but these two cars have 2.0 liter DOHC engines running K03 turbos, so similarly upgraded cars should yield similar horsepower and acceleration numbers.

After browsing through the ST forums and checking time-slips it does look like these cars are capable running with GTI mod for mod. If I were to bet, it sounds like the ST you ran was making a fair amount less than claimed. Full stage 3 on an E30 tune should have given him an edge. You didn't mention the ambient temps or if the guy had run his car right before he ran you; maybe there was heat soak and the ST's ECU is quick to pull timing/boost when the IATs creep up?
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:10 PM   #112
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Man, I don't get it. The ~150 lb weight difference doesn't account for that forward thrust differential. I know the GTI has a gearing advantage...



2nd gear @ 6500 RPMs

GTI (6MT): 59 MPH

FoST: 62 MPH



3rd gear @ 6500 RPMs

GTI (6MT): 84 MPH

FoST: 91 MPH



4th gear @ 6500 RPMs

GTI (6MT): 111 MPH

FoST: 118 MPH



....but that difference in weight and gearing doesn't seem like it should overcome a ~45 hp deficit.



Stratified Tuning's site shows that the numbers he claimed for the ST check out. How sure are you about your numbers? I have to believe that the dyno that produced those numbers for that setup read on the low side.



I know this is a huge simplification, but these two cars have 2.0 liter DOHC engines running K03 turbos, so similarly upgraded cars should yield similar horsepower and acceleration numbers.



After browsing through the ST forums and checking time-slips it does look like these cars are capable running with GTI mod for mod. If I were to bet, it sounds like the ST you ran was making a fair amount less than claimed. Full stage 3 on an E30 tune should have given him an edge. You didn't mention the ambient temps or if the guy had run his car right before he ran you; maybe there was heat soak and the ST's ECU is quick to pull timing/boost when the IATs creep up?


Nah man, ST'a just need more power than GTi's to be just as fast; plain and simple. Last summer I ran an ST that was stage 1 when I was stage 1. I dusted him. Later that same summer he went full bolt (I'm pretty sure) complete with intercooler and no-lift shift with a freak tune (I believe) and I still edged him out with my same mods. Last I checked he was going big turbo but I haven't heard back from him. ST's are just slower all around
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