GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Major loss of torque need some mechanical advice

Boscogn

Go Kart Champion
I'll echo what people have already said.
1. Inspect tensioner to see if you have old one. If so replace immediately. There is no aftermarket one I'm aware of, get the revised oem tensioner. This job requires special tools if you don't have them I'd get the dealer/mechanic to do it.
2. Look into any warranty info you might have.
3. At 60k+ miles you should carbon clean. Seafoam has been proved to barely clean anything at all. Plus you have to run the car which you risk the timing chain tensioner failing even more.
4. Carbon clean using walnut shell blasting. Again specialized machine take to a shop that has one.
5. While you have the intake manifold off might as well drop the 150 bucks for the updated manifold as well. It comes with a gasket so there is a little savings there and you're already paying for the labor with the carbon cleaning. I got quoted $750 for intake manifold and carbon clean.


Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 

thatspsychotic

Ready to race!
Hey there mk6'ers I really need some help.

I have a 2012 mk6 GTI which Ive had for a year and have had zero problems up until now

Around a month ago my car lost a lot of torque, thinking that it was just the fuel I went through a couple tanks and ran some fuel cleaner through the system to try to help. I also replaced the fuel filter itself, yet none of this helped.

After dealing with this for quite some time I took it to a european specialist to find out what is really going on. With some time with the car, the mechanic there told me that there is a issue but he's not exactly sure what it is. Come to find out, the car that I bought is tuned with a tune I have no idea what is (They checked for giac and APR and it is neither) and there is an issue with the timing. In his words: the timing is too fast for what it should be but nothing is showing why. A possible fix in his words were either a reflash with the tune (but I'm unsure with what tune it has) or something mechanical possibly the catalytic converter being worn out. Asides from those two ideas he said that you could pretty much start replacing parts and never stop. The mechanic recommended me to keep driving the car just not at full throttle to hopefully reveal a code. There are no codes on the computer not even soft codes checked with a VAG com. I think this is a decent idea but I already put around 2k on the car with the same performance lack I do not believe that it has gotten any worse and definitely not any better for that matter.

I replaced spark plugs 6k ago along with a full service of the DSG. I always use 93 octane fuel and never kill the car. I'm really here to find an answer or possible ideas from people here that might have had the same issue as me. Thank you all very much for your time.

Thoughts that come to mind:
1.) OP did not specify what "timing" was referring to, some in the thread immediately jump to valve timing, but the other obvious answer is ignition timing. What the mechanic told you is too vague to use as information. Same goes for the catalytic converter, I cannot think of a causal link between a failed cat and reduced torque with no CEL. So far your mechanic's advice is suspect.
2.) What else changed when the car lost torque? Anything like an ECU update at the dealership, or even inadvertently putting the car into stock mode could have taken away the added torque that the tune gives.
3.) Did the torque reduction occur after you changed the spark plugs? What did you set the gap to? Is the torque reduction consistent or does it come and go? Did you properly torque the spark plugs when you installed them? They have a habit of loosening themselves which can cause blowby.
4.) Logs logs logs. Get a way to log boost, ignition timing, maf, etc. while you're driving the car. If the car is stage 1, you should expect something north of 14 psi, possibly even up to 18 or 20 psi depending on the tune. Stock boost levels are almost always less than 10 psi. If you can (with VAGCOM or OBDEleven or something more than just a scan tool), also monitor ignition timing correction factor, which will tell you if the car is getting spark knock. Also check N75 wastegate duty cycle.
5.) Boost leaks, check them. Diverter valve, PCV plate, etc. Almost all boost leaks should be accompanied by some kind of squealing noise though when under boost.
6.) Because you aren't getting any trouble codes or CELs, I'm almost certain the car somehow got back to a stock tune, probably inadvertently. If the car was tuned and not meeting requested boost due to N75 failure or boost leak, that would throw an underboost code. Same with repeated misfires, or many other things. I also highly doubt that it has anything to do with cam timing, because even 1 tooth off will cause the car to run like absolute shit and throw cam timing related trouble codes, and it will feel broken, not just down on torque.
 
Last edited:

John@Unitronic

Go Kart Champion
As the poster above me mentioned, the mechanic is likely not referring to physical camshaft-crankshaft timing, but rather, ignition timing. What was he basing his conclusion on? I'm assuming he collected logs? A degradation in engine performance can definitely be associated with ignition timing correction (aka timing pull, CF, etc.). There are several reasons why this could be happening and there hasn't been enough information posted to start to conclude why. It would be necessary for somebody with experience to analyze the data logs and investigate further after review to assist without shooting in the dark. Timing correction can be caused by poor quality fuel, oil contamination in the combustion chamber (i.e. - faulty pcv), etc. Observing the behavior in the logs and physically running diag. on the vehicle should get things resolved pretty quickly by a qualified pro.

The OP mentioned spark plugs were recently replaced. What plugs/what plug gap?

As for finding out if your vehicle is tuned with Unitronic Performance Software, call 1-866-341-2447 with your full name and VIN. Further validation may be required to prove that you are the current owner of the vehicle.
 

JonVW

Passed Driver's Ed
Thoughts that come to mind:
1.) OP did not specify what "timing" was referring to, some in the thread immediately jump to valve timing, but the other obvious answer is ignition timing. What the mechanic told you is too vague to use as information. Same goes for the catalytic converter, I cannot think of a causal link between a failed cat and reduced torque with no CEL. So far your mechanic's advice is suspect...........

First I'd like to thank you for all your comments and advice. I agree that the mechanic had given me vague information but I do still trust that place in general as they had not charged me at all for that analyzation yet I believe that his thought was that "in time" something would just keep slowing down the car to the point of where a code would show. I just had already put another few thousand on since this issue so I believe that it would not show up now if ever.

Really nothing changed to the car that would cause this torque loss, the most recent thing I have done is remove a blow off valve or really a diverter valve that spaced out the atmospheric diverter valve. But even that added no power during and after the install and never advertised or should have effected torque. As per setting it in a mode I did not mean to put it in, I doubt that it could have happened since when I brought the car to the mechanic he didn't exactly tell me how much psi it was pushing but guaranteed to me that it had been tuned which is with his conclusion that it might be possible to get the computer re-flashed.

The torque reduction did not start after new plugs and I did not set a gap. I bought ngk plugs I don't think there is any blowby. The torque reduction is consistent. Another friend tried the car for me for what feeling he felt and he thought the car was "very laggy" also the turbo is not leaking since there's no sounds of it doing such.

I will look into getting some sort of logging device if this problem continues after cleaning out the intake. I currently do not have a VAG COM

I checked the timing tensioner as other users commented and it is the newest revision and is not the old failing tensioner. The timing chain makes no noise currently so I totally agree with you that there is no issue there. My problem with the tune is that if it was set back to a stock tune I have no clue who tuned it. I believe I checked almost all major tuning companies yet either they can't check if it is tuned, even at a dealer (giac) or they just say it hasn't been by them. I will call unitronic as I'm not entirely sure if I checked them tomorrow but even then wouldn't I have to hold down cruise control or a mapped button to put it back into stock?

My most recent progress is I ran some sea foam into the intake and it seemed to restore some torque. Next week I hope to take apart the intake and completely clean out any carbon and see what difference, if any, that makes. From there I assume I will attempt to log and slowly find out this issue.


As the poster above me mentioned, the mechanic is likely not referring to physical camshaft-crankshaft timing, but rather, ignition timing. What was he basing his conclusion on? I'm assuming he collected logs? A degradation in engine performance can definitely be associated with ignition timing correction (aka timing pull, CF, etc.). There are several reasons why this could be happening and there hasn't been enough information posted to start to conclude why. It would be necessary for somebody with experience to analyze the data logs and investigate further after review to assist without shooting in the dark. Timing correction can be caused by poor quality fuel, oil contamination in the combustion chamber (i.e. - faulty pcv), etc. Observing the behavior in the logs and physically running diag. on the vehicle should get things resolved pretty quickly by a qualified pro.

The OP mentioned spark plugs were recently replaced. What plugs/what plug gap?

As for finding out if your vehicle is tuned with Unitronic Performance Software, call 1-866-341-2447 with your full name and VIN. Further validation may be required to prove that you are the current owner of the vehicle.

I will give a call to Unitronic tomorrow to check the tune. Thank you and as mentioned above I used NGK's. I believe that he collected some logs he spent around 45 minutes with it on the road and then checking it with a computer.
 

JonVW

Passed Driver's Ed
I also found this when looking through the forums: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40964

I reset my battery before with no torque loss so I decided if I did accidentally change the program I should reset the battery again. After resetting the battery nothing changed. Is it possible that the program could still be accidentally changed by me? Thanks
 

JonVW

Passed Driver's Ed
Bump I installed a boost gauge and the car is only pushing 9-10lbs of boost even though everyone says that the car feels tuned and I agree, it does. Is that something I should look into as for getting it re-tuned? I called every major tuner and all of them do not have the car on record.

Also I did a full carbon cleaning intake off and everything and that did nothing for me :(

Anyone have any more suggestions?
 

Boscogn

Go Kart Champion
If none of the tuners have the Vin on record I would have the dealership flash it back to stock?
Edit: Which tuners did you call?
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
 

GreyGti1990

Ready to race!
9-10 psi of boost is stock boost. tuned stage 1 should be making around 18 and stage 2 should be making around 21/22; roughly
 

JonVW

Passed Driver's Ed
If none of the tuners have the Vin on record I would have the dealership flash it back to stock?
Edit: Which tuners did you call?
Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

Might be a good idea, would they charge a lot for that? I called, GIAC, unitronic, APR, I think one other too
 

JonVW

Passed Driver's Ed
9-10 psi of boost is stock boost. tuned stage 1 should be making around 18 and stage 2 should be making around 21/22; roughly

Thats the issue, everyone is saying like it is acting tuned yet everything shows that it isn't

Edit: but thank you for more clarity on those numbers
 
Top