I understand that, and I'm saying that I believe it's at least partially due to the owners. When I replace an alternator in my garage it doesn't get documented, when Sally hears a "strange noise" she goes to the dealer and has it repaired. It costs her a pretty penny and she makes her dissatisfaction know. Volkswagens are bought by a lot of Sallys. I'm not saying that these cars are as reliable as many of the Japanese cars, but I suspect a lot of the numbers are inflated and that the difference between a VW and a Honda might not be as big as it seems.
6
Let's talk reliability
- Thread starter GroceryGTIer
- Start date
I understand that, and I'm saying that I believe it's at least partially due to the owners. When I replace an alternator in my garage it doesn't get documented, when Sally hears a "strange noise" she goes to the dealer and has it repaired. It costs her a pretty penny and she makes her dissatisfaction know. Volkswagens are bought by a lot of Sallys. I'm not saying that these cars are as reliable as many of the Japanese cars, but I suspect a lot of the numbers are inflated and that the difference between a VW and a Honda might not be as big as it seems.
nvturbo
Go Kart Champion
So....you're trying to tell me the superior quality water pumps found at your local VW dealership is failure proof? LOL....Not sure what you've been taking/smoking but get real.
Cadubya
Autocross Newbie
No need to be nasty. A lot of repeat failures of the VW water pumps have been to improper install by the monkeys at the stealership. I’ve seen it.
Sachz71
New member
I only had the radiator fan and the manifold change ( warranty) 35000 miles .
Carbon built up cleaning I thing is part of the maintenance of this cars
I am on the second manifold now this is cause when the Dealer installed the replacement they installed the old manifold type not the revised .
Water pump
Injectors tent to fail too
Coils.
5k oil change is better
Sachz71
New member
nvturbo
Go Kart Champion
Not being nasty, just stating what I've experienced.
I will have to agree with you about those monkeys at the stealership though... :lol:
Where did i say they are failure proof.
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Injen1us
Drag Race Newbie
German cars are meant to be properly maintained and this, historically, has been something outside the scope of the average American.
Most Americans want a reliable car that they dont have to do a DAMN thing to for 10 years. Think early 00s, late 90s Honda or present day Toyota. You can literally forget to change the oil on those cars for 20k miles and you would barely notice the difference. As a previous commenter said... the second something goes wrong its not the owners fault at all... its the manufacturer of course!
I lived in Germany for years and learned a thing or two about how much respect they have for driving. Its not like you go take an easy test and then hop in a car for 30 minutes and then they sign you off... you go to whats called a "fahrschule" or driving school. You start on a manual... you drive day, night, rain, snow. The TUV inspection doesnt focus as much on emissions as they do shocks, brakes and tires. In Germany you HAVE to run Winter tires or Snow qualified A/S between OCT-APR.
They just have more respect for cars... Americans just want their cake and to eat it too
Most Americans want a reliable car that they dont have to do a DAMN thing to for 10 years. Think early 00s, late 90s Honda or present day Toyota. You can literally forget to change the oil on those cars for 20k miles and you would barely notice the difference. As a previous commenter said... the second something goes wrong its not the owners fault at all... its the manufacturer of course!
I lived in Germany for years and learned a thing or two about how much respect they have for driving. Its not like you go take an easy test and then hop in a car for 30 minutes and then they sign you off... you go to whats called a "fahrschule" or driving school. You start on a manual... you drive day, night, rain, snow. The TUV inspection doesnt focus as much on emissions as they do shocks, brakes and tires. In Germany you HAVE to run Winter tires or Snow qualified A/S between OCT-APR.
They just have more respect for cars... Americans just want their cake and to eat it too
GroceryGTIer
Drag Racing Champion
That's true, and a fair point, but I would say most of us here are car guys/girls? and pay pretty good attention to maintaining our cars. I don't like going passed 4k on oil changes... with rotella T6, I could easily do 7 or more, but it's cheap enough to change at 3-4 k. Brakes? I'm close to 50k and the stickers are fine, but I'd like to take it all apart, see how it's wearing, clean everything and put my stoptechs on. Tires I replaced pretty early at about 30 ish? With a UHP A/S, trans was done at 35 instead of 40k etc etc.
Injen1us
Drag Race Newbie
I think thats exactly the difference with people on here vs "average consumer." Most of us are either willing to do the work/maintenance or pay to have it done right.
You know how many people i know who have automatics that cannot tell me when or if they have ever had the fluid changed?! its absurd.
I tuned my car at 1200 miles; have every bolt on available including a new turbo; spray water meth and track her about 4 times a year. I have had two failures:
-Clutch for very predictable and obvious reasons of adding double the torque
-Intake manifold that failed at 60k and was covered under warrenty.
These cars are excellent if you care for them
I think one big key thing no one has touched on thus far is vehicles ARE ENGINEERED TO FAIL within a "reasonable" amount of time. This "reasonable" lifespan has gotten shorter over the years...
Auto manufacturers didn't look at failure rates as a new car sales figure to bank on thanks to all of these great analytical economic advisers we have nowadays.. you know, the kinds that came up with "dead peasant insurance" policies on their employees.
At the end of the day, you can tell from a mile away that newer vehicles are NOT built for a 10+ year ownership. Plastic molded key components such as entire intake manifolds, rotating assemblies and making everything a single bundled part number. If that doesn't worry you, the fact that they have chosen to omit gaskets and simply glue half of the engine together should be another red flag that it's probably not the type of engineering that was thought for longevity or the ability to easily maintain. Why though?
Used cars. For years the used car market has driven CONSIDERABLY more sales then new vehicles on car lots, and it still does today but for how long? Think of it from a manufacturers perspective, right now the models you sold 5-10 years ago are outselling your new stuff... What if we just make it so in 5-10 years our old stuff won't be such a contender?
My .02
Auto manufacturers didn't look at failure rates as a new car sales figure to bank on thanks to all of these great analytical economic advisers we have nowadays.. you know, the kinds that came up with "dead peasant insurance" policies on their employees.
At the end of the day, you can tell from a mile away that newer vehicles are NOT built for a 10+ year ownership. Plastic molded key components such as entire intake manifolds, rotating assemblies and making everything a single bundled part number. If that doesn't worry you, the fact that they have chosen to omit gaskets and simply glue half of the engine together should be another red flag that it's probably not the type of engineering that was thought for longevity or the ability to easily maintain. Why though?
Used cars. For years the used car market has driven CONSIDERABLY more sales then new vehicles on car lots, and it still does today but for how long? Think of it from a manufacturers perspective, right now the models you sold 5-10 years ago are outselling your new stuff... What if we just make it so in 5-10 years our old stuff won't be such a contender?
My .02
That's an interesting take on it, what you see as being engineered to fail i personally see as being engineered to be more efficient. Just because for the past 30+ years cars have been made with aluminum components such as water pumps and intake manifolds there is no reason why they can't be made from plastic. Technology changes, and parts are re-engineered to be more efficient.
Thats why we are starting to see 400hp 4 cylinder engines now that get 30mpg. I do agree though that while cars become more efficient they do become more complex and basic maintenance will become harder and harder.