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master water/meth discussion thread

bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
I'm making a water/meth Frankenstein of sorts. Anybody see a problem with this setup?

Controller:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-3304

Pump:

https://www.snowperformance.net/300-PSI-UHO-EE-Water-Methanol-Injection-Pump-p/40800-ee.htm

Solenoid:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/water-injection-parts/17-solenoid.html

Nozzle:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/nozzles/181-outside-mount-nozzles-do10.html

Throttle Body spacer:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-cts-parts/throttle-body-spacer-kit/ctshw083~cts/

Tank:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/tanks/346-25-gallon-sumped-tank.html
 
riceburner

riceburner

Autocross Champion
The TB spacer is for FSI engines only per ECS. Not sure how that stands, whether our TB's are the same as MK5 or not.

Otherwise I know someone else who i'm 90% has the same tank and it looks like it fits perfectly in the spare tire area (if you remove spare tire). I'm planning to get the same one.
 
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
I'm making a water/meth Frankenstein of sorts. Anybody see a problem with this setup?

Controller:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-3304

Pump:

https://www.snowperformance.net/300-PSI-UHO-EE-Water-Methanol-Injection-Pump-p/40800-ee.htm

Solenoid:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/water-injection-parts/17-solenoid.html

Nozzle:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/nozzles/181-outside-mount-nozzles-do10.html

Throttle Body spacer:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-cts-parts/throttle-body-spacer-kit/ctshw083~cts/

Tank:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/tanks/346-25-gallon-sumped-tank.html
Click to expand...

I don't know or can't find any info on the turbo you have posted in your sig, I am assuming it is a BT of some sort. What are the specs for that turbo? In general parts look ok but you have selected a huge single nozzle to spray into throttle body plate. If your calcs show that you need 940ml of w/m then you should distribute with individual jets for each runner for proper distribution. That nozzle is too big to be spraying that close. (opinion).

I am in the process of rebuilding my car and I will be running 5 jets (1250ml total). 4 in the manifold for fueling and one just off of the intercooler for cooling. This is a pic of my manifold which is an HPA but you can also do this with a stock intake manifold. This gives you best atomization and most even distribution.

Note - and of course make sure you have checkvalves or solenoid close to each jet.

 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
riceburner said:
The TB spacer is for FSI engines only per ECS. Not sure how that stands, whether our TB's are the same as MK5 or not.

Otherwise I know someone else who i'm 90% has the same tank and it looks like it fits perfectly in the spare tire area (if you remove spare tire). I'm planning to get the same one.
Click to expand...

You scared me for a second I had to actually go to CTS and look, but it looks like it works for tsi as well:

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/CTS_Turbo_FSI_TSI_Throttle_Body_Spacer-4545-0.html

As for the tank, I was hoping to put it in the spare tire area, so I hop you are correct. It's a nice tank for the price too.
 
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
You scared me for a second I had to actually go to CTS and look, but it looks like it works for tsi as well:

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/CTS_Turbo_FSI_TSI_Throttle_Body_Spacer-4545-0.html

As for the tank, I was hoping to put it in the spare tire area, so I hop you are correct. It's a nice tank for the price too.
Click to expand...

Tank looks good. You probably know that the pump should be mounted back there with tank, most tanks have spot to mount pump.

Methanol is highly toxic and highly volitile (spreads quickly in the air) and unlike gasoline is oderless. I recommend venting the reservoir to the outside if you are putting this in the back of a hatchback. You wouldn't vent your gas tank in to the cabin area for the same reasons. I am using Aquamist reservoirs (10L dual tank) in back of my MKV GTI venting to outside.
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
GIACUser said:
I don't know or can't find any info on the turbo you have posted in your sig, I am assuming it is a BT of some sort. What are the specs for that turbo? In general parts look ok but you have selected a huge single nozzle to spray into throttle body plate. If your calcs show that you need 940ml of w/m then you should distribute with individual jets for each runner for proper distribution. That nozzle is too big to be spraying that close. (opinion).

I am in the process of rebuilding my car and I will be running 5 jets (1250ml total). 4 in the manifold for fueling and one just off of the intercooler for cooling. This is a pic of my manifold which is an HPA but you can also do this with a stock intake manifold. This gives you best atomization and most even distribution.
Click to expand...

I'll have to hunt down the specs but it's a hybrid k04 basically.

As for the one big single nozzle, it was recommended from a source I trust, so Ill give it a shot. If it seems to not work, I'll document the failing here. As for the solenoid, where is a good place to install it in this? That is the one thing I haven't really nailed down yet.
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
GIACUser said:
Tank looks good. You probably know that the pump should be mounted back there with tank, most tanks have spot to mount pump.

Methanol is highly toxic and highly volitile (spreads quickly in the air) and unlike gasoline is oderless. I recommend venting the reservoir to the outside if you are putting this in the back of a hatchback. You wouldn't vent your gas tank in to the cabin area for the same reasons. I am using Aquamist reservoirs (10L dual tank) in back of my MKV GTI venting to outside.
Click to expand...

I believe the tanks cap is vented, so I can't just tap into the top like yours unless I get a new cap
 
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
I believe the tanks cap is vented, so I can't just tap into the top like yours unless I get a new cap
Click to expand...

I am sure you can source a replacement cap and drill it out super easy. I looking into using a similar reservoir and Snow said I could do that easy enough. Its up to you but long term exposure carries all the usual cancer warnings that most petroleum based fuels do along with all the lung, kidney and liver stuff.
 
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
I'll have to hunt down the specs but it's a hybrid k04 basically.

As for the one big single nozzle, it was recommended from a source I trust, so Ill give it a shot. If it seems to not work, I'll document the failing here. As for the solenoid, where is a good place to install it in this? That is the one thing I haven't really nailed down yet.
Click to expand...

Ok, big question then, how much hp are you expecting to run? Once you have a sense of that you can calc your w/m needs. Just a comparison, I was at 335-340whp and I ran a total of 450ml.
 
riceburner

riceburner

Autocross Champion
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
400 whp
Click to expand...

I used same pump, you would need roughly 600ml total. You don't want to spray more than you need to or you will have zero timing pull but you will lose power if you spray too much. I would start with 600 or as close as you can get without going over so you get to the point where you have minor timing retardation. Then up w/m by adjusting controller, adding more alky to the mix or going with a larger jet. With some timing pull seen you can increase and log until you just hit zero pull for max effectivness.
 
Last edited:
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
GIACUser said:
I used same pump, you would need roughly 600ml total. You don't want to spray more than you need to or you will have zero timing pull but you will lose power if you spray too much. I would start with 600 or as close as you can get without going over so you get to the point where you have minor timing retardation. Then up w/m by adjusting controller, adding more alky to the mix or going with a larger jet. With some timing pull seen you can increase and log until you just hit zero pull for max effectivness.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your help and input I appreciate it. I still need to source my methanol. I'll have to ask the kids around town where they get theirs.
 
G

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
bart2278 said:
Thanks for all your help and input I appreciate it. I still need to source my methanol. I'll have to ask the kids around town where they get theirs.
Click to expand...

Just google methanol Indianapolis - lots of listings for folks selling race fuels. I buy in 5 gal tins about 37.00 and I dilute with 50% distilled water.

You will find listings like - http://www.indyracingfuels.com/index.html

Good luck man
 
bart2278

bart2278

Go Kart Champion
Another question that I'm still confused about. Is it ok to run meth in the winter? I have read that people in this thread have, but I don't know if they were just using it for cooling, no tune for w/m. It gets cold around these parts, would I turn the meth off for winter and go back to a " winter" tune? At what temps should I start doing that if applicable?
 
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