Timing Retardation

What’s going on guys, I’ve been having an issue where I felt as though the car was hesitant at certain RPMs. I have a MKV GTI TSI motor 6MT with a Unitronic Stage 1+ tune , CTS TURBO intake, Audi R8 coils( Purchased from ECSTUNING). So I took my car to a shop to diagnose as I would hear air releasing. Assuming I had a boost leak I took it. The shop went over anything and felt the same that I was while driving. There was no boost leaks etc. I ended up asking them to install a GFB Dv + and that’s when they were able to hear boost releasing at certain RPMS. They logged the car and said fueling etc was good, car was hitting requested boost but the car was pulling timing. See below pic. He asked what fuel I used and stated to not used BP 93 anymore and that the issue was due to fuel. Stated to use Sunoco or Shell and also to use fuel injector cleaner and octane booster in different tanks after. I did. Feels better but not 100% I recently installed new spark plugs NGK BKR7EIX which is better but still feel it releasing boost early. Just had carbon cleaning recently done and new intake manifold installed. Any other ideas ? Granted I am not able to log and have been using 93 from shell or Sunoco but still some hesitation.


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GFB DV+ acts up with unitronic tunes, I had one installed with Stage 1+ to stage 2, gave me issues under partial throttle, take it out, and see if theres a difference. The fact that youre getting that much timing pull is concerning. I run Chevron 92 (Closest gas I can get to 93) and at the most I get -1.5 in the higher rpms.

Running octane higher than the tune should be better for it.
Subbing for more info
Whats the original dv rev?

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The GFB DV+ is not causing your timing correction. The ECU pulls timing for pre-ignition.
Doesn't hurt to throw BG44K fuel cleaner in or to change your fuel filter (use only 6.6bar).
New plugs should be checked and set to 0.028" on a stock turbo.

The timing pull is attributed to bad gas or too low octane in the gas you chose. You should only use toptiergas.com brands, I have tested gas for years, I ONLY use Shell or Exxon/Mobil in a pinch. Unitronic relies on lower boost and higher timing strategies for power in their stock turbo tunes so you need to run 93 octane at a minimum always. If you can't find top tier gas or if it doesn't fix all timing correction, a simple water methanol kit (50/50 mix) will quench all of the timing correction. Supplying the proper octane (cooling ability and burn speed) will allow the ECU and Uni tune to advance timing as per the map without pulling timing (correction factor).

MmmmmBoost said:

GFB DV+ acts up with unitronic tunes, I had one installed with Stage 1+ to stage 2, gave me issues under partial throttle, take it out, and see if theres a difference. The fact that youre getting that much timing pull is concerning. I run Chevron 92 (Closest gas I can get to 93) and at the most I get -1.5 in the higher rpms.

Click to expand...

Was doing the same with a REV D diverter valve and IMO it actually made the tune better, quicker boost and better throttle response.


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brobst said:

Running octane higher than the tune should be better for it.
Subbing for more info
Whats the original dv rev?

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Click to expand...

REV D


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HYDE16 said:

The GFB DV+ is not causing your timing correction. The ECU pulls timing for pre-ignition.

Doesn't hurt to throw BG44K fuel cleaner in or to change your fuel filter (use only 6.6bar).

New plugs should be checked and set to 0.028" on a stock turbo.



The timing pull is attributed to bad gas or too low octane in the gas you chose. You should only use toptiergas.com brands, I have tested gas for years, I ONLY use Shell or Exxon/Mobil in a pinch. Unitronic relies on lower boost and higher timing strategies for power in their stock turbo tunes so you need to run 93 octane at a minimum always. If you can't find top tier gas or if it doesn't fix all timing correction, a simple water methanol kit (50/50 mix) will quench all of the timing correction. Supplying the proper octane (cooling ability and burn speed) will allow the ECU and Uni tune to advance timing as per the map without pulling timing (correction factor).

Click to expand...

Always run 93 gas, usually from BP as it is considered Top Tier but tuner said not too. Can’t see the difference between shell and Sunoco and prices are way higher for 93 than BP. I may try replacing the fuel filter during my next oil change as it is time.


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Isn’t it weird that the timing pull occurs at low rpm then stops and then at high rpm ?


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Its how the tune generates power. Thats why you are seeing the pull at those rpms. Thats what hyde is saying. So you gotta track down the mini issue that is affecting your fuel quality. Then the pull should decrease some. It may not eliminate timing pull, but it should bring it at least into acceptable range of values

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Copy, definitely going to replace the fuel filter soon. Just filled up now with BP 93 and feels better. Also could be due to the colder weather of course. OEM or MANN filter ?


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Slowgti08 said:

Copy, definitely going to replace the fuel filter soon. Just filled up now with BP 93 and feels better. Also could be due to the colder weather of course. OEM or MANN filter ?


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Click to expand...

I believe they are the same filter.

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Could blow by be causing, or exasperating, this issue (reducing effective octane)? Running into timing pull my self. Even when running a 91 octane file with 93 octane fuel. APR K04 3.1. I do have 93k miles with no carbon cleaning though.

Try a lower octane tune even if you have 93 fuel. See if the fuel is the issue. Verify the level of ethanol in the fuel works with the tune as well which shouldn’t be more than 10% I would imagine anyway.

That timing pull is absolutely nothing to worry about on a 93 octane tune. You need to log a lot more things to find your issue, but 5.5 degrees of timing pull on 2 cylinders at 4000rpm is nothing.

Log boost, o2 correction, lambda spec and actual, rail pressure spec and requested..

notovicrious said:

Try a lower octane tune even if you have 93 fuel. See if the fuel is the issue. Verify the level of ethanol in the fuel works with the tune as well which shouldn’t be more than 10% I would imagine anyway.

Click to expand...

e10-e15 for stage 1/1+ and upto e20 for stage 2 Unitronic.