They can and do make turbos specific for the TSI setup, they sent me pics of what it should have looked like, however in my case they messed up the order. So I am left with trying to sort it out with a mechanic who is not so familiar with this kind of custom work. I will send him a bunch of pics and hope that he figures out how simple it is. Otherwise it’s going to be a long wait to get a new cover made and sent. Either way according to their perspective with this mod, it can and will work. For me it’s just a pain to be located so far away from them and also for to be in a country where I don’t speak the language so well. However I think it’ll be ok.
6
Big Turbo Discussion Thread #2
- Thread starter GTR_Killer
- Start date
Hey guys, just finished reading both bt threads. Coming up I will be doing a 4motion swap like JR has done (but keeping manual trans) and putting in a precision 5558gen2 into a motor that I'm rebuilding and got for super cheap. I'll be asking some questions eventually, but for now I'm just saving up for the engine build and turbo kit. Awd install after I get a stage 3 clutch
Charles@NGP
Ready to race!
Depending on the build date of your car, you might be able to save some cash by converting your FWD trans to AWD with just a transfer case and an AWD differential. Lemme know if you have any questions.
GroceryGTIer
Drag Racing Champion
What is the cost of such a job Charles? Is it more cost effective than selling and picking up a Golf R of the same year?
Charles@NGP
Ready to race!
I suppose ultimately it depends on how cheap you can find a used Mk6 Golf R and the level of modification you already have done to your GTI. It also greatly depends on the tools/equipment you have available to you. The most difficult part in the case of a GTI would be cutting out the rear section and welding in the new Golf R section.
If you're having a shop like ours do an AWD swap, it would probably be in the $8-12k range, depending on certain options. For instance, which exhaust you use, whether you could convert your trans or need to get a new one, etc.
I can tell you from my own build that it's fairly inexpensive when you can do it yourself. You can save a good deal of money by just buying used parts (the non-wear items preferably). Coding in the case of the GTI is fairly straight forward with the correct modules installed since they actually produced a Mk6 model with AWD.
In my case, I didn't really have an option since they never produced a 2.0T TSI CC with 4motion anywhere in the world (though they did make a 2.0 TDI version strangely enough).
GroceryGTIer
Drag Racing Champion
For that price, I have to say that I can't see how that could be practical. Golf R mk6's can't be much more than 12k (depending on year, miles, etc of course). Is there any benefit to doing this to the gti vs getting the R? Other than bragging rights? Obviously this is no cut at you guys at all. I'm just trying to understand it.
Cadubya
Autocross Newbie
GroceryGTIer
Drag Racing Champion
But how much can a 2015 R be gotten for now?
Charles@NGP
Ready to race!
The cheapest one I was able to find within 300 miles of my area was $17,764. If you've got a fairly modded Mk6 GTI and really like it, then the swap isn't too bad. Keep in mind that if you've already got a K04, Stage 3/3+ or other engine mods on a car, it isn't as feasible to just pick up another car. Not to mention that if you have suspension mods, you'll have to either swap it yourself or pay a shop to do so.
If someone with a bone stock (or with a few simple mods) 2012 GTI came into my shop and wanted AWD, I'd tell him to consider just purchasing a Golf R instead. The other thing I would tell someone to consider is getting an LSD installed.
The Mk6 GTI is a nice little car, but you are right that it is a little excessive for what you gain out of it. But hey, if someone really likes their car, it's on them whether they feel it's truly worth it or not. I can see both sides of the coin here as I have sunk a sizeable sum into my own build. I'll continue to do so simply because I love the handling and performance I have been able to get from my CC, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect another CC owner to be able to justify such an expensive endeavor.
Cadubya
Autocross Newbie
This isn’t for people who are barely modded. This is for people who have lots of money, time, and effort into their car. To the point where de-modding it and parting out and starting over with a ~$28k Mk7 Golf R makes even less sense than it was to mod the Mk6 GTI in the first place. Modding is a waste of money. It’s healthier than spending it on hookers and blow though. There’s always going to be a newer, faster, better platform to mod.
Charles@NGP
Ready to race!
Hehe, I'd also be long dead if I spent that kind of money on hookers and blow. Well, I guess it depends on how much was spent on each.
GroceryGTIer
Drag Racing Champion
Hehe, I'd also be long dead if I spent that kind of money on hookers and blow. Well, I guess it depends on how much was spent on each.
Hookers already.blow
Mostic
Go Kart Champion
I have the LSD installed in my FWD and I wanna swap to AWD, I would say the AWD is another story and you can achieve another stable power without caring that much about the traction control and curves, turns, etc...
Specially if you will have the HPA haldex controller too as I am gonna do [emoji6]
Charles@NGP
Ready to race!
I hear you, my suggestion for the LSD was mostly because it's a lot more cost effective for the average person to have us install to their car and get significantly more out of the power that they're making. The best possible setup IMHO is to have both a front LSD and AWD. I have a Peloquins high torque LSD installed on my CC and I love that thing. When coupled with the solid SuperPro 26mm rear sway bar I have on it now and the extra 5" of wheelbase that you get with the CC, you can really start to control the rotation of the rear of the car.
The only downside right now is that I can't do any burnouts unless its slick outside due to all the traction (I really need to get around to slapping a big turbo on it or going with my dumbass 2.5L swap idea). I also wish someone would finally step up and get a proper rear diff made for Gen 4 Haldex! I know I've seen the threads on getting them made, but so far no one has actually come through.
HYDE161
Go Kart Champion
In terms of High HP FWD cars, a lot of people don’t plan on adding that much power when they first buy the car. I bought my 4-door GTI as a commuter car and to fit my growing family. Added some parts, added some more, admitted I was bit by the mod bug and went nuts to stay on top of the traction.
If you’re willing to do the research and test various suspension parts and setups, there’s no reason why you can’t reign in the power on the street. Going to a big turbo does force you to learn how to drive all over again, but to be honest, the added spool allows for better traction and smooth drivability around town. It’s not like an IHI/K03/K04 with lightning spool where you can roast tires down low all day long. That’s not fast, that’s just fun. Traction is a balance of drivetrain and suspension and it’s taken me years of testing different manufacturers parts and combinations to get it right. Here are the most important excerpts from my build thread related to traction:
Drivetrain:
034Motorsport Street Density Engine & Transmission Mounts – a must have to lock the engine and trans weight down in the engine bay, aids in wheel hop control.
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R 245/40/17 Tires – wider and extremely sticky rubber.
APR Pendulum Mount with SuperPro Bushings & Racingline (formerly VWR) Subframe Mount – these go hand in hand and IMO are the biggest improvement to prevent wheel hop and gain gobs of FWD traction.
Peloquin’s Limited Slip Differential – the biggest upgrade for traction dispersion between both front tires.
Suspension:
H&R Front 26mm & Rear 24mm Sway Bars – more for traction in turns but aids in coupling the front tires and the rear tires.
ST Suspensions XTA Coilover Kit – allows me to adjust front camber to -1 degrees as FWD cars go into positive camber (targeting 0) upon acceleration. Allows me to set the front dampers to 75% soft to soak up road imperfections and travel and the rears to 50% stiff to help prevent squat without being too harsh. Allows me to corner balance the car with me inside the driver’s seat so the weight is 50/50 side to side and 60/40 front to back. Equal side to side weight and more weight at the front allows for more traction.
Stern Rear Subframe Brace – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
SuperPro Control Arm Kit – includes the anti-lift kit which provides additional caster (shifts the transverse engine weight forward over the front axles and tires).
Swift Rear 400lb Progressive Springs – Prevents rear squat and ultimately front lift on acceleration.
TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Front Subframe Collar Kit – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Rear Subframe Collar Kit – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
TyrolSport Hatch Brace – more for traction in turns but aids in coupling the rear tires.
Unibrace UB – keeps the center of the chassis stiffer which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
Whiteline Rear Trailing Arm Front Bushings – Optimizes rear suspension geometry.
Eventually I’ll replace every suspension bushing with SuperPro bushings.
If you’re willing to do the research and test various suspension parts and setups, there’s no reason why you can’t reign in the power on the street. Going to a big turbo does force you to learn how to drive all over again, but to be honest, the added spool allows for better traction and smooth drivability around town. It’s not like an IHI/K03/K04 with lightning spool where you can roast tires down low all day long. That’s not fast, that’s just fun. Traction is a balance of drivetrain and suspension and it’s taken me years of testing different manufacturers parts and combinations to get it right. Here are the most important excerpts from my build thread related to traction:
Drivetrain:
034Motorsport Street Density Engine & Transmission Mounts – a must have to lock the engine and trans weight down in the engine bay, aids in wheel hop control.
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R 245/40/17 Tires – wider and extremely sticky rubber.
APR Pendulum Mount with SuperPro Bushings & Racingline (formerly VWR) Subframe Mount – these go hand in hand and IMO are the biggest improvement to prevent wheel hop and gain gobs of FWD traction.
Peloquin’s Limited Slip Differential – the biggest upgrade for traction dispersion between both front tires.
Suspension:
H&R Front 26mm & Rear 24mm Sway Bars – more for traction in turns but aids in coupling the front tires and the rear tires.
ST Suspensions XTA Coilover Kit – allows me to adjust front camber to -1 degrees as FWD cars go into positive camber (targeting 0) upon acceleration. Allows me to set the front dampers to 75% soft to soak up road imperfections and travel and the rears to 50% stiff to help prevent squat without being too harsh. Allows me to corner balance the car with me inside the driver’s seat so the weight is 50/50 side to side and 60/40 front to back. Equal side to side weight and more weight at the front allows for more traction.
Stern Rear Subframe Brace – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
SuperPro Control Arm Kit – includes the anti-lift kit which provides additional caster (shifts the transverse engine weight forward over the front axles and tires).
Swift Rear 400lb Progressive Springs – Prevents rear squat and ultimately front lift on acceleration.
TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Front Subframe Collar Kit – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
TyrolSport DeadSet Rigid Rear Subframe Collar Kit – keeps the rear subframe locked in place which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
TyrolSport Hatch Brace – more for traction in turns but aids in coupling the rear tires.
Unibrace UB – keeps the center of the chassis stiffer which allows the suspension to work more effectively.
Whiteline Rear Trailing Arm Front Bushings – Optimizes rear suspension geometry.
Eventually I’ll replace every suspension bushing with SuperPro bushings.