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Old 10-30-2017, 08:00 PM   #1
joeyfrost
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Considering meth...

Hello everyone,

This might have been talked about but as time passes, methods and materials change along with common knowledge.

I am considering the use of water/meth on my Stage 2+ Golf R.

I have a few questions...

1. What manufacturers are out there right now?
2. Price vs Performance (usability, quality, etc)
3. How practical is it? Can it be stable enough for a Daily driven car?
4. This one is good... nozzle location?? What do you prefer?? Which location of nozzle placement can be the most stable?
5. Failsafes??

These are just a few questions on my mind but if you have any other good knowledge to throw up here by all means go ahead.

Kind thanks everyone..


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Old 10-31-2017, 01:20 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyfrost View Post
Hello everyone,

This might have been talked about but as time passes, methods and materials change along with common knowledge.

I am considering the use of water/meth on my Stage 2+ Golf R.

I have a few questions...

1. What manufacturers are out there right now?
2. Price vs Performance (usability, quality, etc)
3. How practical is it? Can it be stable enough for a Daily driven car?
4. This one is good... nozzle location?? What do you prefer?? Which location of nozzle placement can be the most stable?

These are just a few questions on my mind but if you have any other good knowledge to throw up here by all means go ahead.

Kind thanks everyone..


Mk6 Golf R | APR Stage 2+
Answer to #1. AEM, Aquamist, DevilsOwn, Snow common brands.
Answer to #2. With the exception of Aquamist they operate the same. Aquamist is considerably more expensive.
Answer to #3. It is practical and easy to use assuming you have a place to buy the methanol.
Answer to #4. For your setup I would use 2 nozzles, one just after intercooler and one just after throttle (plate).

I have a MKV GTI. Until recently my setup was K04 running a 100oct file daily. Did this for the last 3 years. Setup is close to yours. Worked fantastic.

To take get the power increases of water meth you need a tune that can take advantage of it, so all you really need is a 100oct version of your current tune. You can run 91 in your gas tank and the water/meth will take care of the rest of your octane needs. It is pretty cool you can run a race tune daily. As I mentioned, that is what I did for the last three years, plus.

You do have to dial the system in which requires some logging and adjusting initially. Once you have it dialed in all you have to do is keep the water Meth reservoir filled. And of course you buy and mix your methanol.

Again, it is the combination of the 100oct tune and water meth that provides the big gains.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:20 AM   #3
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^ he covered most of it. I've ran a dual nozzle setup for the past few years, been very reliable. Mine is mostly a track car, I'm not running the 100 file. I mostly have it for the cooling benefits vs the hp gains.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:25 AM   #4
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Thank you for the replies gents. I have the 100 oct file whenever I decide to do it just have to switch. Any benefits to using one brand over another? Also when you "dial" this in are you doing so on the kit to dial it to the car? Im assuming the 100oct file stays the same right? Its the dialing in of the spraying..?


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Old 10-31-2017, 10:27 AM   #5
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yeah the different nozzle sizes and your water/meth ratio mostly.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:28 AM   #6
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Who are you using ? Im also concerned about a "failsafe" as well.

(Pump failing, nozzle clogged, controller damaged , etc. if im on the 100oct file but giving the car less than that it will run like crap ) right?


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Old 10-31-2017, 10:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jay745 View Post
yeah the different nozzle sizes and your water/meth ratio mostly.


Gotcha. Is there a "standard" in order to calculate this? What will determine nozzle size and water meth ratio. Location?


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Old 10-31-2017, 10:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyfrost View Post
Who are you using ? Im also concerned about a "failsafe" as well.

(Pump failing, nozzle clogged, controller damaged , etc. if im on the 100oct file but giving the car less than that it will run like crap ) right?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyfrost View Post
Gotcha. Is there a "standard" in order to calculate this? What will determine nozzle size and water meth ratio. Location?


Mk6 Golf R | APR Stage 2+

I have a snow stage 2 setup with 2 solenoids. You do have to worry about a fail safe if you're tuning for it. I'm not tuning for it and just run my 93 file instead of the 100 so if it stops working, it just stops working and doesn't harm anything.

There's tons of info. You should spend a few hours reading this thread, any questions you have I'm sure are covered.

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31857
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:46 AM   #9
joeyfrost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay745 View Post
I have a snow stage 2 setup with 2 solenoids. You do have to worry about a fail safe if you're tuning for it. I'm not tuning for it and just run my 93 file instead of the 100 so if it stops working, it just stops working and doesn't harm anything.



There's tons of info. You should spend a few hours reading this thread, any questions you have I'm sure are covered.



http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31857


Awesome thanks


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Old 10-31-2017, 11:33 AM   #10
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:00 AM   #11
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im switching form my snow MAFU setup to the AEM setup that runs off boost pressure. The MAFU controller never worked right for me. i assume thats why the previous owner of the kit sold it to me. lol
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:40 AM   #12
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Have you guys tracked your AFR's when doing meth? I've heard of people cracking pistons on meth due to the mixture going super lean when meth is introduced into the cylinder
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyfrost View Post
Thank you for the replies gents. I have the 100 oct file whenever I decide to do it just have to switch. Any benefits to using one brand over another? Also when you "dial" this in are you doing so on the kit to dial it to the car? Im assuming the 100oct file stays the same right? Its the dialing in of the spraying..?


Mk6 Golf R | APR Stage 2+
Aquamist has benefits over Snow, AEM and DO systems but I ran fine with my Snow system. I am using Aquamist and direct injection for my new build but I am going for 500whp.

Dialing your system in when running a 100oct file is about getting your engine the right amount of w/m mix when it needs it. This requires logging, which is easy to do with a Ross-Tech cable/software and laptop. Once you have a log you can sit down and look at what happened allowing you to make decisions about adding or not, more water meth at particular rpms.

Too much w/m mix and you get an incomplete burn (reduced power). Not enough w/m mix and the ECU pulls timing (reduced power). To dial it in you do a series of runs, ideally in 4th gear or 3rd gear if not possible. You get to 2500 and go full throttle to redline and log the timing. Take a look at the run and you will see each cylinder and what happened during the run. Your goal is to increase w/m mix to get to zero timing pull in each cylinder through the run, but no more than that.

Your setup is much like mine was and with a 100oct file I ran 2 Snow 225ml nozzles. 1 in tubing just after the intercooler and 1 in a throttle body plate. I ran a 50/50 mix (by volume) of distilled water and methanol.

On the progressive controller I started spraying at 6psi and full by 14psi. Doing all the above should get you very close since our setups are so close. My early dyno was 336whp, tuner gave me even hotter files but I did not get to dyno again but I imaging I was in the 340's somewhere.

I made a little video on how to do logging with the Ross-Tech stuff in case you have not done this before. LINK

On the subject of failsafe, just running a 100oct file does not require a special failsafe solution. The VW ECU is able to pull up to 12 degrees of timing. If your water meth system fails and there is knock, the ECU just pulls timing, as much as it needs to in order to keep engine safe. I have had my water meth fail at the track and run full sessions, blasting around the track at triple digit speeds and the ECU just did its job and dialed back the timing to accomodate the lesser quality fuel.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:16 PM   #14
Jcarollo765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIACUser View Post
Aquamist has benefits over Snow, AEM and DO systems but I ran fine with my Snow system. I am using Aquamist and direct injection for my new build but I am going for 500whp.

Dialing your system in when running a 100oct file is about getting your engine the right amount of w/m mix when it needs it. This requires logging, which is easy to do with a Ross-Tech cable/software and laptop. Once you have a log you can sit down and look at what happened allowing you to make decisions about adding or not, more water meth at particular rpms.

Too much w/m mix and you get an incomplete burn (reduced power). Not enough w/m mix and the ECU pulls timing (reduced power). To dial it in you do a series of runs, ideally in 4th gear or 3rd gear if not possible. You get to 2500 and go full throttle to redline and log the timing. Take a look at the run and you will see each cylinder and what happened during the run. Your goal is to increase w/m mix to get to zero timing pull in each cylinder through the run, but no more than that.

Your setup is much like mine was and with a 100oct file I ran 2 Snow 225ml nozzles. 1 in tubing just after the intercooler and 1 in a throttle body plate. I ran a 50/50 mix (by volume) of distilled water and methanol.

On the progressive controller I started spraying at 6psi and full by 14psi. Doing all the above should get you very close since our setups are so close. My early dyno was 336whp, tuner gave me even hotter files but I did not get to dyno again but I imaging I was in the 340's somewhere.

I made a little video on how to do logging with the Ross-Tech stuff in case you have not done this before. LINK

On the subject of failsafe, just running a 100oct file does not require a special failsafe solution. The VW ECU is able to pull up to 12 degrees of timing. If your water meth system fails and there is knock, the ECU just pulls timing, as much as it needs to in order to keep engine safe. I have had my water meth fail at the track and run full sessions, blasting around the track at triple digit speeds and the ECU just did its job and dialed back the timing to accomodate the lesser quality fuel.
What he said ^, very knowledgeable source.

Wish I had the balls to run it, sigh.
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