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Old 02-04-2011, 06:14 PM   #1
4Motion
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4Motion and Haldex

I'm interested in 4Motion Golf, in particular i would like a TDI 2.0 4Motion Golf, so I was collecting information about its mechanics to understand if it is a good 4WD system.
However I only find it use a Haldex. The question is: which generation of Haldex does it use? There are many generations and the older ones (Gen I, II , III) don't work well, while the latest (Gen IV which is on Golf R also) seems to be amazing like a torsen differential.
Do you know something about it?
How does this mechanics behave? Good, bad? Opinions?
Thanks.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:43 AM   #2
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GenI haldex worked amazingly well for the theory it involved. It wasn't as fast to react as a torsen/center diff system but it provided far better day to day driving.

GenII/III just expanded on the original theory incredibly well. I have no idea what is telling that GenI/II/III Haldex systems "don't work well" but even in the Generation I MKIV .:R32 the AWD system was recognized as one of the car's keys to success.

I do not know which generation your overseas Haldex/4Motion cars use, as they are not the Golf R. But I can tell you that any Haldex system past Generation II (my current car's system) will work quite well and surprise you at how quickly it can respond and adjust.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:58 AM   #3
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All transverse engine audi/vw awd uses haldex. Haldex 1-3 are very FWD boased and are nowhere close to a full time AWD.

Haldex XWD behaves very much likea full time AWD system like Torsen or ATTSEA. Haldex 4 in VAG Haldex XWD minus the eLSD that shifts torque between rear left/right wheels.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:01 PM   #4
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Wow, the gen IV haldex system really sounds like an impressive leap forward.

I had a 2004 Audi TT DSG 3.2 coupe, which had the haldex AWD setup. You could tell the car was front biased driven, but only a slight slip/hesitation is all that you would notice before the car hooked up and went. Wet conditions, snowy conditions, it didn't really matter, the car did very well putting the power to the ground.

Some people weren't satisfied with this and would buy modules to adjust the rear bias to make the car's torque more evenly split, full time. Problem was (and still is), that TT was a shorter wheel base vehicle (same platform as the GTI as I recall) and this didn't pair up well with the modified torque split. The car became less controlable and tail happy. In fact, I recall reading that in inclement weather, the car was almost unmanageable to drive with a spirited foot.

My point?

I believe the engineers at VW/Audi know what they are doing. These cars are setup to drive well and safely. I wouldn't worry too much about the haldex setup. I think no matter which Gen you find in the golf TDI 4 motion, you will find it confidence inspiring and fun to drive.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #5
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I heard a lot of people complaining about Haldex Gen I-II-III because it isn't fast enough and because it doesn't distribuite torque properly between front and rear axles.
I don't want a car with an outdated mechanics.
However I don't know which Haldex generation use GolfMk6 TDI 2.0.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Motion View Post
I heard a lot of people complaining about Haldex Gen I-II-III because it isn't fast enough and because it doesn't distribuite torque properly between front and rear axles.
I don't want a car with an outdated mechanics.
However I don't know which Haldex generation use GolfMk6 TDI 2.0.
I believe something as subjective as the amount of slip vs grip is going to be tough to describe accurately online.

If such differences have the potential to bother you, the best thing to do is go drive one.

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Old 02-06-2011, 09:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnimativ View Post
All transverse engine audi/vw awd uses haldex. Haldex 1-3 are very FWD boased and are nowhere close to a full time AWD.

Haldex XWD behaves very much likea full time AWD system like Torsen or ATTSEA. Haldex 4 in VAG Haldex XWD minus the eLSD that shifts torque between rear left/right wheels.
Depends on your definition of AWD. Most of the torsen based systems on the market even in 2011 models are still incapable of putting 100% of available torque to 1 axle. There are positives and negatives to each type of system, and always will be.

Also; just FYI: The Haldex system, ALL of them GenI to GenIV, distribute torque based on the factory requested settings and the programming. If VW/Audi asked for a 50-50 split at all times then that is what Haldex would give them. They don't for a reason...
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Last edited by VR6Growl; 02-06-2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VR6Growl View Post
Depends on your definition of AWD. Most of the torsen based systems on the market even in 2011 models are still incapable of putting 100% of available torque to 1 axle. There are positives and negatives to each type of system, and always will be.

Also; just FYI: The Haldex system, ALL of them GenI to GenIV, distribute torque based on the factory requested settings and the programming. If VW/Audi asked for a 50-50 split at all times then that is what Haldex would give them. They don't for a reason...
And VW also passed up rear eLSD, which madkes Haldex4 incapable to put all on one axle. Pretty neutered imo. But Haldex 4 is still better than the earlier versions, which are FWD based and biased.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnimativ View Post
And VW also passed up rear eLSD, which madkes Haldex4 incapable to put all on one axle. Pretty neutered imo. But Haldex 4 is still better than the earlier versions, which are FWD based and biased.
Yes eLSD would be nice, but it doesn't even remotely gimp the system. It just means ESP takes over instead of eLSD. It is important to note, howver, that VW did not "pass up" XWD capability. Saab has exclusive rights to the XWD system for their first gen cars and until Haldex develops an alternative no one else can market it.

However; as I stated once already, ALL Haldex systems currently on the market are FWD based and biased. GenIV is no different from GenII or GenIII in htat. It is just different in how quickly it does the torque transfer and how light it is...
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:23 PM   #10
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex_...eration_-_2007

Some of what is described in the section is exclusive to Saab. Mostly the "XWD" system that allows 100% of the torque to be applied to either front or rear axle.

VW likely makes do with using the Traction Control System to reduce slipping instead of electronic limited slip differentials. Also worthy of noting is:
Quote:
During a standing start the rear wheels are put to use, without the need for any slip to occur. Then under straight-line cruising conditions, to conserve fuel and driveline wear, the torque split to the rear wheels is reduced to a level between 5 and 10 percent.
VW has always been about practicality first and foremost. The 4Motion Haldex system likely isn't the best performance-wise compared to other AWD systems, but it will give you AWD like grip when you need, and FWD efficiency when you don't.
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