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Old 12-04-2009, 08:54 AM   #1
haithame
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GTI R Engine, is it TSI or FSI?

Hey Guys,

I am wondering about the engine of the new GTI R or R20 (270ps version) or whatever it is called

is it the old FSI or the new re-designed TSI (where the fueling issues solved)??
as far as i know that the GTI R will have the K04 turbo and i know that TSI engines doesnt support the K04 turbos but when i checked the new car on vw.de website i found that the new R as well as the 210ps GTI MKVI version have the TSI engine.
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms/maste...tail.0.11.html

its kinda confusing....any ideas??
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:17 AM   #2
bwoodahl
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IIRC, the "GTI R" motor is an upgraded FSI motor found in the early MkV's (06's and 07's). It probably has a different head, and internals from the base FSI. VW "traded down" some torque for potentially increased reliability when going from the FSI to the newer TSI.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:27 AM   #3
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So the fueling issues and all the crap that exists within the FSI will be eventually inherited by the new R...
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:24 AM   #4
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The engine should be problem free. The only similarity is that both FSI share come from thesame E113 engine family.

The new Golf R engine has been rebuilt from the ground up.



"The EA113 series direct-injection petrol engine is used in the new Volkswagen Golf R; its turbocharger makes it very flexible and variable right up into the highest performance ranges. The 1,984 cm3 TSI's specific power is a respectable 100.3 kW / 136.6 PS per litre displacement, and its response is just as impressive. The engine's power can be spontaneously summoned in the blink of an eye throughout its speed range. The engine also impressively underscores its potential acoustically. Visually too: Its two chrome tailpipes can be seen at the centre of the bumper under the diffuser integrated there - an "R trait" that the previous model also displayed.

The in-line four-cylinder engine develops its tremendous propulsive power via a turbocharger (up to 1.2 bar boost pressure) with intercooling. The engine, with a weight of just 152 kilograms, is controlled by a fully electronic engine management system with E-Gas. The cylinders of the four-cylinder engine have been equipped with reinforcing bolts, unlike less powerful TSI versions. Also designed to be stronger are the connecting rods, so that they can reliably transfer the engine's high torque to the crankshaft. Last but not least the cylinder block was also reinforced to handle the aggressive engine forces."


http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2058


...moved to Golf R forum
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:42 AM   #5
haithame
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strengthened internals and all but its the TFSI engine which means it has the same current issues (fueling, cam follower, etc...) or not??

Last edited by haithame; 12-04-2009 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:05 AM   #6
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The EA113 engine was born back in 1993 and has been in numerous VWs and Audis and Seats...so, because it had a slight hick-up when evolved and thrown in the MKV GTI does not mean thesame issue will persist when evolved further.

This is a new evolution which should improve the engine performance and resolve past reliabilty issues like all evolutions do. This engine evolution has already debut in the S3...so we already know how reliable it is.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:25 AM   #7
haithame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubuski View Post
so, because it had a slight hick-up when evolved and thrown in the MKV GTI does not mean the same issue will persist when evolved further.
This engine evolution has already debut in the S3...so we already know how reliable it is.
check this out

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292875

I love my GTI but i am really thinking about getting the R (AWD and K04) but i cant see the point in investing in an old technology which is already facing unsolved issues.
i just want to make sure that the new R is refined and these issues got fixed in them

Last edited by haithame; 12-04-2009 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haithame View Post
check this out

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292875

I love my GTI but i am really thinking about getting the R (AWD and K04) but i cant see the point in investing in an old technology which is already facing unsolved issues.
i just want to make sure that the new R is refined and these issues got fixed in them

You do realized that the guy in the link has a big turbo kit as well as other engine mods and unitronics ECU software..right? The Golf R engine is hardly old technology.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:29 PM   #9
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I'm sure VW would not go the length in creating such an awesome screamer of a vehicle without resolving past issues. It wouldn't make sense.
The fellow on that Audi site has some serious issues he created himself when he modified that car. He doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer if you know what I mean.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:Golf-R Dude View Post
I'm sure VW would not go the length in creating such an awesome screamer of a vehicle without resolving past issues. It wouldn't make sense.
The fellow on that Audi site has some serious issues he created himself when he modified that car. He doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer if you know what I mean.

Heh but this is VW.. =p

Not dissing VW but we all know its true =)
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:36 AM   #11
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Reading the golfmk6.com. forum 'quality problems' thread, indicates that there were a few issues with the earlier build Mark 6 GTI's: (1) Noisey Manual gearbox (n/a to me) (2) Rear Water Washer Reservoir leaking (2) Crankcase defects requiring an engine replacement. Most appear to be pre < October 2009 builds. Hopefully the issues are sorted out by now, as Wolfburg has been building the new Mark 6 GTI for about 10-12 months now.

The slimmed down shape at the front and rear of the Mark 6 GTI has been done to make the Golf look wider & lower than the MK5 Golf. Suggests that maybe the Mark 7 will be wider again in terms of floor plan. The look is definitely moving closer to the VW Passat concept & Sicorrro design.

In respect to outlaying an extra 10-15K for a Mark 6 Golf 'R', still not convinced that it will offer extra value over the fresher GTI:

Cons of Golf 'R':

Fuel delivery/cam-follower problems with older EA113 motor ... old technology.
Turbo Lag.
Weight - @ 160kg - 180kg heavier.
Extra service cost of extra Haldex differentials.
Looks - not distinctive enough from suboardinate models.
Less economical.
Price.
0-100kph and 1/4 mile times yet to be confirmed ... based on Audi S3, 14 sec dead 1/4 mile ain't that much faster than the GTI.

Pros of GTI:

EA888 Audi derived motor as in the TT and Sicorro with fuel pump/pressure issues likely to be resolved (involves change 4 lobe camshaft actuator for cam follower).
XDL (or XDS) electronic diff bridges the gap between the traction levels of the GTI and Golf 'R'.
Less turbo lag with wider spread of peak torque.
More economical.
Requires 95 RON fuel for lower compression EA888 motor ... not 98 octane as the EA113 motor requires due to higher compression.
Priced cheaper.
Less weight than the Golf 'R'.
Acceleration times: Independent tests from Journo's are yield times as quick as 6.3 sec and 6.5 sec 0 - 100kph (DSG). Volkswagen record their times with full tank of fuel & 200kg on board (or two heavy set Germans). In other words, it may not be that much slower in the real world than the Golf 'R' in dry conditions due with these performance times, less weight, and less lag.
Now built in Germany ... not South Africa or China which may be the case in the future.

Cheers.

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Old 01-16-2010, 08:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteJames View Post
Weight - @ 160kg - 180kg heavier.
according to the website of VW Germany the difference between the GTI and the R is 128 kg
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Old 01-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #13
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Forgot to mention that the EA113 in the Golf 'R' and Audi S3 has camshaft belts that require periodic replacement.
The Mark 6 GTI, Audi TT and Sirocco EA888 has camshaft chains that should go the distance.

Weight of the 'R':

Autoexpress state that the 3 door manual Golf 'R' weighs in at 1521 kg.
The 3 door manual GTI comes in at 1360 kg (Source: Volkswagen Brochure).

Difference is about 160 kgs.

DSG adds another @ 20 kg to both vehicles.

Cheers.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:02 PM   #14
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According to the VW Germany website the GTI weighs 1393 kg and the R 1521 kg
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