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Old 07-17-2012, 11:15 AM   #1
patrickj
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VWR CAI vs. Carbonio intake for Golf R

Can anyone speak to the difference between the performance impact of these 2 intakes? I like the VWR CAI, but it requires replacing the engine cover with the cover from an Audi TTS (to keep the clean under the hood look). The Carbonio just bolts onto the front of the existing engine cover/intake combo and looks clean and doesn't require the engine cover replacement.

I thought the engine cover/intake might be restrictive, but I'm not sure. Anybody have any performance numbers for the 2 intakes?

I'm currently APR Stage I flash and will be adding a HPFP, one of the 2 intakes, and probably the APR TBE with software.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:25 AM   #2
rickman535
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look at the neuspeed carbon fiber engine cover.. looks gorgeous and keeps it very clean and should work with the vwr intake.. from what i understand when you start doing a bit of tuning into the stage 2 apr area teh vwr will give you better results.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:45 AM   #3
MKV727
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I installed a CAI similar to VWR's then got sick of the sound and switched to Carbonio and been happy ever since. There was a period where i was running stock filter and airbox and switched to Carbonio and actually noticed a difference (stage 2 car). I also modified my engine cover slightly when I installed my Carbonio and received greater results because of it (Datalog backed it up).

VWR will perform greater no doubt, Carbonio will appear cleaner and not give any obnoxious noise though. VWR is literally double the price as well.

APR accepted the Carbonio intake and ran it on their cars for YEARS and I don't believe they would have done that if the Carbonio for the FSI motor was truly a flop. It shows in my logs to push more air than the intake I came from.

If money isn't a thing, you don't mind the noise and want the extra 5bhp then do the VWR intake as I don't think anything on the market performs better. Frankly, If I can get a guarantee it will work with APR's FSI K04 tune I'm going to put my Carbonio up for sale and switching.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:04 PM   #4
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I'm curious on what intakes (if any) are CARB approved. Not an issue for most I know, but my personal preference is to have hardware that does not need to be removed.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:40 AM   #5
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I appreciate the comments and you sharing your experience. I'm not going any further than stage 2 or 2+. Not quite sure which. I'll have the intake, HPFP, TBE and appropriate software. This is my DD and I'd prefer it be reliable, but fun.

I was leaning toward the VWR, but I've read about some fitament issues and am still unsure if the stock engine cover is the bottleneck on airflow. I think from an engineering standpoint, with the tune, that there is an optimal amount of air flowing into the turbo and I don't know which, if any or all of the intakes provides that volume. I like the look of the VWR with the Audi TTS engine cover, but if I go Carbonio, I can take the $500 difference (replacement engine cover and difference in intake costs) and put that toward the exhaust. I think the TBE makes a much bigger difference than any of the intakes would.

To me, it's not just about money, but performance for the $. I don't mind paying, but I'm not convinced that the VWR CAI is that much better than the Carbonio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
I installed a CAI similar to VWR's then got sick of the sound and switched to Carbonio and been happy ever since. There was a period where i was running stock filter and airbox and switched to Carbonio and actually noticed a difference (stage 2 car). I also modified my engine cover slightly when I installed my Carbonio and received greater results because of it (Datalog backed it up).

VWR will perform greater no doubt, Carbonio will appear cleaner and not give any obnoxious noise though. VWR is literally double the price as well.

APR accepted the Carbonio intake and ran it on their cars for YEARS and I don't believe they would have done that if the Carbonio for the FSI motor was truly a flop. It shows in my logs to push more air than the intake I came from.

If money isn't a thing, you don't mind the noise and want the extra 5bhp then do the VWR intake as I don't think anything on the market performs better. Frankly, If I can get a guarantee it will work with APR's FSI K04 tune I'm going to put my Carbonio up for sale and switching.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #6
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Double post, sorry.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickj View Post
I appreciate the comments and you sharing your experience. I'm not going any further than stage 2 or 2+. Not quite sure which. I'll have the intake, HPFP, TBE and appropriate software. This is my DD and I'd prefer it be reliable, but fun.

I was leaning toward the VWR, but I've read about some fitament issues and am still unsure if the stock engine cover is the bottleneck on airflow. I think from an engineering standpoint, with the tune, that there is an optimal amount of air flowing into the turbo and I don't know which, if any or all of the intakes provides that volume. I like the look of the VWR with the Audi TTS engine cover, but if I go Carbonio, I can take the $500 difference (replacement engine cover and difference in intake costs) and put that toward the exhaust. I think the TBE makes a much bigger difference than any of the intakes would.

To me, it's not just about money, but performance for the $. I don't mind paying, but I'm not convinced that the VWR CAI is that much better than the Carbonio.
I talked with my mechanic and he has installed both intakes on the R. The Carbonio has come off one one and the VWR has stayed on. The Carbonio wont bring in enough air for the type of perfomance needed for Stage 2 or more. i think you are over analyizing it as did I. If performance doesnt matter as mch as the OEM look then go Carbonio, not to much else to really analyize. Hope that helps. I went with the VWR. GMP Performance has a few coming in this week!
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:30 PM   #8
xxmagnusxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
I installed a CAI similar to VWR's then got sick of the sound and switched to Carbonio and been happy ever since. There was a period where i was running stock filter and airbox and switched to Carbonio and actually noticed a difference (stage 2 car). I also modified my engine cover slightly when I installed my Carbonio and received greater results because of it (Datalog backed it up).

VWR will perform greater no doubt, Carbonio will appear cleaner and not give any obnoxious noise though. VWR is literally double the price as well.

APR accepted the Carbonio intake and ran it on their cars for YEARS and I don't believe they would have done that if the Carbonio for the FSI motor was truly a flop. It shows in my logs to push more air than the intake I came from.

If money isn't a thing, you don't mind the noise and want the extra 5bhp then do the VWR intake as I don't think anything on the market performs better. Frankly, If I can get a guarantee it will work with APR's FSI K04 tune I'm going to put my Carbonio up for sale and switching.
What did you do to your stock air box/engine cover with the Carbonio to "get better results"? Did you get better airflow and if so, what was the delta?
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
I installed a CAI similar to VWR's then got sick of the sound and switched to Carbonio and been happy ever since.

Is it really that obnoxious?
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmagnusxx View Post
What did you do to your stock air box/engine cover with the Carbonio to "get better results"? Did you get better airflow and if so, what was the delta?
I'd like to know as well if you don't mind.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #11
MKV727
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Originally Posted by droopy1592 View Post
Is it really that obnoxious?
A filter on a stick (an intake with a filter that is not enclosed) is really that obnoxious. The Forge Wintake is obnoxiously loud, it's practically identical to VWR's intake too.

The Delta I got from the modifications was at one time 7.7% greater flow but it came at a price. I removed the fins at the beginning of the engine cover, removed the MAF screen and the housing that holds it to the outlet of the engine cover. It ran fine at WOT but under heavy load, low RPM it would misfire. According to my MAF readings the average across the RPM was 7.9% greater and a bit higher than that past 4800 RPMs.

I put the MAF screen back in as well as the housing and all misfires vanished, new logs showed a gain of 4.8% airflow with OEM drive ability.

I also recorded the MAF airflow with a K&N filter I had lying around and it was literally negative 1.2% from supplied filter and all stock air box.

I'll post photos tonight.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:43 PM   #12
xxmagnusxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
A filter on a stick (an intake with a filter that is not enclosed) is really that obnoxious. The Forge Wintake is obnoxiously loud, it's practically identical to VWR's intake too.

The Delta I got from the modifications was at one time 7.7% greater flow but it came at a price. I removed the fins at the beginning of the engine cover, removed the MAF screen and the housing that holds it to the outlet of the engine cover. It ran fine at WOT but under heavy load, low RPM it would misfire. According to my MAF readings the average across the RPM was 7.9% greater and a bit higher than that past 4800 RPMs.

I put the MAF screen back in as well as the housing and all misfires vanished, new logs showed a gain of 4.8% airflow with OEM drive ability.

I also recorded the MAF airflow with a K&N filter I had lying around and it was literally negative 1.2% from supplied filter and all stock air box.

I'll post photos tonight.
Thanks. It looks like the mods to the stock airbox/engine cover aren't worth the loss.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:09 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by xxmagnusxx View Post
Thanks. It looks like the mods to the stock airbox/engine cover aren't worth the loss.
So basically, you took the fins out?
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #14
MKV727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmagnusxx View Post
Thanks. It looks like the mods to the stock airbox/engine cover aren't worth the loss.
Taking the fins out has no drawback... It's free, there's no visual signs of tampering and believe it or not a 5% increase in air is huge. When I calculated the data I almost fell over. I was truly expecting nothing or maybe a max 1% increase.
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