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Old 08-04-2012, 04:12 AM   #1
Sammy
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Myth-Busted: 2.0 TSI upgraded injectors mystery solved.

Hi Guys,

This thread has been something I’ve been busting to post, and now the time is right so here it is.. Yeah I’m sure it’s going to piss off a few people, but that’s life.

Most here know that I’m building a big turbo GTI and that I’ve had my share of issues. The time it has taken, and the level of frustration I’ve experienced trying to push the limits of TSI tuning simply due to a lack of high performance upgrades and knowledge. I have sat by and watched Performance companies introduce products that I knew were flawed, or required you to buy their entire kit. Thanks to a highly knowledgeable and respected performance company I was able to get the advice I needed and the performance parts I wanted as they had the knowledge and know how.

This car has been a 14 month learning process for me. What I’ve done, no one has done and no one planned on doing.

I have assembled, and disassembled my TSI no less than 5 times… I’ve had 3 sets of pistons in it… and thrown thousands and thousands of dollars at it in development.

For the record : CP & JE still make incorrect TSI drop in pistons....STILL… I have two sets of pistons that are paperweights as a result of this. (do you really know what your compression ratio is??)

Mahle Motorsport is the only company that makes correct TSI pistons which are custom made for a certain vendor.

The hold up in my build was injectors. I know I need more fuelling and I know the injectors i need "do not exist" . I have been searching long and hard for TSI injectors , there have been rumours and myths about what injectors work and what do not. Some people said the Volvo units works. A quick Google search will show how much (mis)information is available! Volvo never made a DI motor.

A few months ago I contacted a vendor as I was desperate and needed help. We know Unitronic has "larger TSI injectors" and we also know APR has larger TSI injectors. When I asked in countless threads what or where the injectors are from it is always top secret, nobody would tell me for love nor money. I wasn’t going to let that stop my build so I prompted said vendor to help me out anyway they could.

Now there are 3-4 basic DI body styles and most are manufactured by Bosch (if this information needs rectifying then someone please contribute). I am going to call the FSI - Body 1 and the TSI body 2

- OEM 2.0 FSI BPY motor Bosch Part # / OEM Part # = 06F 906 036 A | 0 261 500 020
- OEM 2.0 TSI CCTA motor Bosch Part # / OEM Part # = 06H 906 036 E | 0 261 500 059

So the hunt was on to find the elusive "30% larger" injectors. We started with the basics....ordering larger injectors within the VAG world. Audi R8 , Audi C6 RS6 , Audi B8 S4...etc. All of the those run Body 1 injectors.
Ok what other vehicles out there are Direct Injected? Ferrari? Lamborghini? Porsche?

All of these companies sell matched sets of injectors and the Ferrari units are over $5000+....no matter how many ways you split it I knew these were not what we were looking for. So it’s not VAG and it’s not an exotic so what could it be?

think cheap and think domestic.. Ford & GM….

Enter Ford Ecoboost Motors… They’re Direct Injected and receiving a lot of press at the moment.

- VAG 2.0 TSI engine =1984cc / 4 = 496cc per cylinder & 207hp / 52hp per cylinder
- Ford 2.0 Ecoboost motor = 1999cc / 499.75cc per cylinder & 252hp / 63 hp per cylinder
- Ford 3.5 Ecoboost motor = 3496cc / 582.66cc per cylinder & 355hp/ 59.2hp per cylinder

Ok so by process of elimination we went for the Ecoboost 2.0 units. My mistake just saved you your hardship. Ford 2.0 Ecoboost injectors do not work. Order up the 3.5 V6 units then only to discover Ford 3.5 Ecoboost injectors do not work.

Sad Panda (not to be confused with Angry Panda Racing).
Time to dig deeper... Time to spend MORE money… Enter GM Ecotec Motors. Again:

- VAG 2.0 TSI engine =1984cc / 4 = 496cc per cylinder & 207hp / 52hp per cylinder
- GM LNF 2.0 Turbo Ecotec engine = 1998cc = 499cc per cylinder & 260hp/ 65hp per cylinder.

Holy shit, they fit. FOUND IT.
The injector that has been so elusive that flows more than stock (exact % will not be disclosed at this time as I do not want to upset any advertisers with my findings....) is from the GM 2.0 Ecotec motor:

- GM LNF 2.0 ECOTEC OEM Injector Part # / Bosch Part # : 12636111 / 0 261 500 112.

You will also need the corresponding harness for it in order to splice into your own harness: GM Part # - 1258944

Attached is a picture I took of the injectors once I confirmed their operation, this is back on the 20th June 2012

L-R: GM Ecotec, VAG TSI, VAG RS4.



Now, go forth and make power chidlren...
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:25 AM   #2
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Just curious, did you look into BMW N54/55 units?
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:35 AM   #3
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solve the elusive hpfp problem next
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Last edited by Halvie; 08-04-2012 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
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solve the elusive hpfp problem next
2-3 weeks and they will be available.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:04 AM   #5
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2-3 weeks and they will be available.
get on fashbook or pm me the answer to this
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:19 AM   #6
UFfitz56
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Damn man this info is huge. This should be stickied somewhere. So now that you found your injectors..how's the build coming?
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:06 AM   #7
nvturbo
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Would these "upgraded" injectors be beneficial for those that are Stage I or II with the stock K03 setup?
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:38 AM   #8
steelcurtain
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Very interesting information you have here especially about JE pistons. Some people (and you know who you are) have some explaining to do.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvturbo View Post
Would these "upgraded" injectors be beneficial for those that are Stage I or II with the stock K03 setup?

My guess would be no. Granted this information doesn't come from DI cars, but generally you only need upgraded injectors if the injector duty cycle is to high (commonly quoted number is 80%). Since stock injectors are good for Stage 3, that's unlikely to be the case.

to OP: Great find

I have no plans of exceeding the capacity of my injectors, but I love seeing what other people do and this will definitely help.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:48 AM   #10
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Very nice!!!!
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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I can vouch that stock spec JE pistons have issues. I have to run 110 octane to prevent knock. Been troubleshooting this since my build. I've gone thru 5 different APR tunes with no results. You just confirmed my worst fear Sammy! Looks like I'm pulling an engine.

And of course JE stated everything on there pistons were correct. $1800 in pistons and rods wasted. Anyone from JE Or Integrated Engineering care to comment????
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #12
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^Damn that sucks bawlz...
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #13
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^Damn that sucks bawlz...
Yep. $9000 later...rebuild. Sigh... I hope you guys appreciate Sammy and me. Lol
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:02 AM   #14
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Awesome! True pioneers right here.
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