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Old 08-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #29
Poltergeist
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can someone quickly tell me, whats the required boost for Stage1, stage 2 and K04?

I think K04 only differs in blade design and the actual turbo size is the same as K03, is that correct? If so, would I be seeing the same kind of spooling time difference in K03 turbo for these 2 aftermarket intakes as well?

In terms of mid range power and actual boost would you say the difference between aftermarket intakes(carbonio and modshack in this case) is negligible at Stage 1 or 2 level?
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #30
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I seriously would love to get a bunch of untamed together and test them. That way things can stay consistent. No vendor wants to do that though or would ever consider that.

However even regarding the differences in tuning we should be able to expose short comings if the tune remained consistent.
Wouldn't you have to run them ALL on ALL tunes to be truly scientific about it?
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:16 PM   #31
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To see their effects on OTHER tunes yes. But to see their physically limiting effects, no.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #32
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Just what this forum needs, another longwinded, subjective opinion based on no facts whatsoever.

*smirk*



5 stars.

Last edited by aj_law; 08-21-2012 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Bein' a wiseass.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #33
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In that case - shouldn't all be tested on a totally stock car? Anything else brings tune specifics into play.

For example - a modshack on an APR K04 might log differently than a Carbonio because the APR K04 programming is EXPECTING specific flow characteristics from a part it was specifically developed with?

In my head I see a flaw in the test, but I am not sure if it is a real flaw or just in my head.

Maybe the solution is to remove boost from the equation.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #34
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After riding in a TSI with a Carbonio I don't understand the noise complaint. It seems to be a double standard as noise is okay but just not from the Carbonio intake. Many different modifications create more noise like the 8" subwoofer listed in your sig. When people upgrade from the all season Pirellis to a set of stickier tires (Michelin PSS makes more noise than the stock tires) and the road noise from tires can be pretty annoying. A aftermarket downpipe with a cat is undoubtedly louder and will make an unpleasant sound at a cold start. What's the deal with the Carbonio?

With Grambles performing these tests with a K04 it could be viewed as a positive due to the K04 airflow requirements amplifying the weaknesses and differences between the intakes. With the IHI the difference between the Modshack and Carbonio may not even be apparent.

Characteristics at 250 g/s may not show up at 180 g/s.
many people do not like the blow off noise of the carbonio. noise tolerance is 100% subjective. the blowoff was loud on my car and literally turned heads on the street, including cops. that is not what i am looking for. i felt that the sound riced out the GTI, also not what i am looking for. under heavy throttle, upshiting etc. or heavy throttle with abrupt let-off, the blowoff got annoying to me.

the few added HP, less restriction up high and better flow was nice but didn't negate the noise, for me. i also didn't notice gains or the feel of less restriction until higher in the rev range and much of my driving is done around town where low end tq is king. i have been back on the stock airbox with aFe pro dry drop in filter sans baffle and I honestly don't miss anything about the Carbonio and its superior performance except a tiny bit on the highway. Carbonio is a highway machine, but around town, Ill take the stock box and its restrictions.

and btw, throwing in the 8" sub comparison as if it somehow relates is silly. the stock premium 8 stereo in the GTI literally has NO bass. none. my wife's 2003 pontiac vibe has a better stereo. all the added sub does is add a little low end. can't even hear it outside the car unless im cranking it. not like im cruising around with my booming bass.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #35
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Intakes can cause restriction up high. If the compressor is actually trying to pull as hard as it can through a "straw", for lack of a better word, it will not meet those requested values. You're limited physically in the system as opposed to what the computer THINKS it can do.

This is why a lot of track cars have completely open ended compressors.
Thank's for the write-up!

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Old 08-21-2012, 04:47 PM   #36
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In that case - shouldn't all be tested on a totally stock car? Anything else brings tune specifics into play.

For example - a modshack on an APR K04 might log differently than a Carbonio because the APR K04 programming is EXPECTING specific flow characteristics from a part it was specifically developed with?

In my head I see a flaw in the test, but I am not sure if it is a real flaw or just in my head.

Maybe the solution is to remove boost from the equation.
Boost is exactly what we need to look at though.

For a full proof system, yes, testing under completely stock conditions would be better, however, you're not testing the true bounds of the intake under loads that most would see with a Stage 1 or Stage 2 tune.

At least for most tests, keeping an variable static kind of shows you the varying degrees of what the other variating subjects are doing. In this case, you're limited by intake, engine, etc. etc. Yes, you might see more discrepancy across the various tuners, but all are still limited as to what they can push through the engine. I have a feeling though, downpipe would play into this as well.

For intake purposes K04 on one specific tune would be enough to see what they can all do physically. But considering alternate MAF locations, fuel trims might differ a little tune by tune.

Who knows. Theres a lot to consider.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:59 PM   #37
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Wow, great thread, right on. Yes, it was clear the Carbonio was less restrictive than the stock box that I am back to (w/pointless drop-in filter) but I couldn't get past the noise & sound which bums me out because it is clear from more 'hard data' like this that it is superior to the stock airbox. Oh well.

The only caveat though is that all these tests were run w/k04 which is just better from the start. Bigger turbo, etc. so it seems like an intake would show a more noticeable difference working in tandem w/k04 vs. with something more 'common' like stage 1 on a k03 turbo no?

Great sticky though. Real good. Thanks for your ongoing technical contribution to this forum Grambles!
I'll be posting up a before and after dyno once I get my APR/Carbonio Intake installed.

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Old 08-21-2012, 05:00 PM   #38
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I'll add logs for my stubby apexi soon. It will be quite a unique test as the shortest intake tested yet. Even shorter than the Modshack.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:13 PM   #39
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I'll be posting up a before and after dyno once I get my APR/Carbonio Intake installed.

Mike
Dyno sheets are not all accurate. Some miscalculate power, some over calculate power. And then you have to add in heat soak, and a ton more variables on the dyno.

The logs, while they do not provide power numbers, allow us to see how much air is moving and where along with changes in temps from intakes. Among many other factors that a dyno cannot measure.



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Old 08-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #40
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In that case - shouldn't all be tested on a totally stock car? Anything else brings tune specifics into play.

For example - a modshack on an APR K04 might log differently than a Carbonio because the APR K04 programming is EXPECTING specific flow characteristics from a part it was specifically developed with?

In my head I see a flaw in the test, but I am not sure if it is a real flaw or just in my head.

Maybe the solution is to remove boost from the equation.
Incorrect. If you use a single vehicle for all runs or logs that vehicle with that specific tune funtions as a CONTROL. You will still have a small sample size as obviously n=1.

I would not say test an AWE CCBI intake with a GIAC tune against a Carbonio with an APR tune. But you could definately test both intakes on the same car with the same tune. I would recommend though only comparing Intakes such as Carbonio and Neuspeed that keep the MAF in the stock location using an APR tune.

I picked up a Carbonio today at PureMS. Looks like I made a good choice.

Last edited by DarkCloak; 08-21-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: clarified statement
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #41
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This is trickier in that one has to question if the tune comes into play at this point or not. It is known that GIAC Stage 2 and up does play better with the CCB than the Carbonio (though at Stage 2 it is negligible, once you hit k04 it is common).
There's no scientific data to support that at all, and it simply does not make any sense.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #42
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I'll be posting up a before and after dyno once I get my APR/Carbonio Intake installed.

Mike
you are going from stock to APR tune + carbonio, or you already have the tune and are getting the intake? dyno with tune and intake doesn't say much unless its dyno with stage 1 and stock airbox vs. stage 1 w/carbonio. i'm in to see logs.
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