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Old 08-23-2012, 10:33 AM   #1
thedude4bides
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Stage 2 is

All i think about ha ha! I can't get stage 2 out of my mind for the life of me! I thought the intake I just installed would hold me off, but no. (actually the intake may be going back to stock until I sort out why I'm actually losing power when it's above 80 degrees outside)

Here is my thoughts:

UR Catted Resonated DP- looking for value & power & stock sound. APR TBE is sexy as hell especially with those tips but that takes value out of the equation since it costs more than twice the UR DP costs.

Autotech HPFP OR APR rebuild again value comes into play here for me. APR charges twice the amount to rebuild the stock pump than Autotech so I am on the fence. The new APR at $1100 is nuts to me.

Unitronic Stage 2+ I'd only have to pay $150 to upgrade. I know APR doesn't charge for upgrades, but I already have Uni stage 1+

Total it would Cost:
$625 UR DP
$350 Autotech HPFP (Or $600 for APR rebuild)
$150 Uni Stage 2+ tune

Total (before Shipping + Install) = $1425 (or $1,675)

Any input from the .:R community on this path? What would you do different and why?
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:37 AM   #2
copizza
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CAI at all? Carbonio?
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #3
MKV727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedude4bides View Post
All i think about ha ha! I can't get stage 2 out of my mind for the life of me! I thought the intake I just installed would hold me off, but no. (actually the intake may be going back to stock until I sort out why I'm actually losing power when it's above 80 degrees outside)

Here is my thoughts:

UR Catted Resonated DP- looking for value & power & stock sound. APR TBE is sexy as hell especially with those tips but that takes value out of the equation since it costs more than twice the UR DP costs.

Autotech HPFP OR APR rebuild again value comes into play here for me. APR charges twice the amount to rebuild the stock pump than Autotech so I am on the fence. The new APR at $1100 is nuts to me.

Unitronic Stage 2+ I'd only have to pay $150 to upgrade. I know APR doesn't charge for upgrades, but I already have Uni stage 1+

Total it would Cost:
$625 UR DP
$350 Autotech HPFP (Or $600 for APR rebuild)
$150 Uni Stage 2+ tune

Total (before Shipping + Install) = $1425 (or $1,675)

Any input from the .:R community on this path? What would you do different and why?
The reason why your air intake loses power over 80F is due to the fact it's a CTS intake. It's a knock off of the BSH intake and there is no actual seal in the system to block off the filter. The MAF calculates how much air it receives by using a density equation and hot air = less dense = less grams of air. If you want to not have this issue buy a Carbonio, VWR or a Forge intake.

Do not buy an Autotech HPFP kit as the DIY rebuilds are prone to failure. Reusing the stock spring with an upgraded piston that has more mass is a bad move. Reusing the stock seals has lead to many failures as its the #1 issue in the HPFP rebuild.

When the APR HPFP rebuild is on sale it's an actual bargain. With the APR HPFP you get the HPFP assembled by a professional, an upgraded spring to match the piston, a new set of seals, flow tested to insure no problems and a warranty.

The Autotech kit simply gives you a piston and the APR HPFP gives you everything I listed above. When a HPFP has a failure it can cause fuel in the oil or worst case it can lead to a seized pump.

Saving $2-300 is not worth doing on a new car with a motor that would cost thousands to replace.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:10 PM   #4
SworksR20
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How much is a full APR Stage II+ system?
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:32 PM   #5
copizza
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2 ways

Expensive
HPFP $1100
VWR CAI $575
TBE $2000
Tune $600

Less expensive
HPFP REBUILD $650
Carbonio $280
APR DP $840
Tune $600
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:18 PM   #6
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Carbonio dropped my AITs by 5 degrees compared to stock and added 15 g/s. Not a bad result given the cost.

To me the APR pump was worth the "tax" being that it's used my OEMs around the world and bench tested.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
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Buy a DP and install it now, but don't upgrade the tune until you have the money for the APR HPFP.

I think people forget that we can run downpipes without a tune...
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #8
thedude4bides
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Thanks for the detailed imformative response! You have convinced me that APR Rebuild is the way to go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
The reason why your air intake loses power over 80F is due to the fact it's a CTS intake. It's a knock off of the BSH intake and there is no actual seal in the system to block off the filter. The MAF calculates how much air it receives by using a density equation and hot air = less dense = less grams of air. If you want to not have this issue buy a Carbonio, VWR or a Forge intake.

Do not buy an Autotech HPFP kit as the DIY rebuilds are prone to failure. Reusing the stock spring with an upgraded piston that has more mass is a bad move. Reusing the stock seals has lead to many failures as its the #1 issue in the HPFP rebuild.

When the APR HPFP rebuild is on sale it's an actual bargain. With the APR HPFP you get the HPFP assembled by a professional, an upgraded spring to match the piston, a new set of seals, flow tested to insure no problems and a warranty.

The Autotech kit simply gives you a piston and the APR HPFP gives you everything I listed above. When a HPFP has a failure it can cause fuel in the oil or worst case it can lead to a seized pump.

Saving $2-300 is not worth doing on a new car with a motor that would cost thousands to replace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
Carbonio dropped my AITs by 5 degrees compared to stock and added 15 g/s. Not a bad result given the cost.

To me the APR pump was worth the "tax" being that it's used my OEMs around the world and bench tested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by copizza View Post
CAI at all? Carbonio?
^CTS is coming out & Carbonio is going in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by project92raddoslc View Post
Buy a DP and install it now, but don't upgrade the tune until you have the money for the APR HPFP.

I think people forget that we can run downpipes without a tune...
^ Thanks! I will take this under consideration, I guess I'd just be driving around with a cell and untapped power if I did it this way....
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:45 PM   #9
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you have a ~$40k car and you want to skimp by saving a few hundred bucks on a hpfp that has been known to not be as reliable as the APR unit? Ridiculous...
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:30 PM   #10
thedude4bides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregprep29 View Post
you have a ~$40k car and you want to skimp by saving a few hundred bucks on a hpfp that has been known to not be as reliable as the APR unit? Ridiculous...
how was I supposed to know it wasn't reliable... hence the thread ASKING. I didn't go out do it.

And by the way, I can afford a 40K car BECAUSE I wisely spend my money frugally, look for best VALUE/$, and know how to save a dollar.

Thank you.

Last edited by thedude4bides; 08-23-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #11
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I had a MK5 GLI FSI car that ran an Autotech HPFP upgrade for 40k+ miles. There are others on the forums with more miles, APR has a nice product but I wouldn't say its more reliable. It is fool proof if you are a garage hack, though.

I think the pump upgrade is as only as good as the person that does it, if you don't know what your are doing you will probably install the internals incorrectly.

I have an Autotech HPFP upgrade for my Golf R
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:05 AM   #12
thedude4bides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
I had a MK5 GLI FSI car that ran an Autotech HPFP upgrade for 40k+ miles. There are others on the forums with more miles, APR has a nice product but I wouldn't say its more reliable. It is fool proof if you are a garage hack, though.

I think the pump upgrade is as only as good as the person that does it, if you don't know what your are doing you will probably install the internals incorrectly.

I have an Autotech HPFP upgrade for my Golf R
I've seen posts by folks who run autotech hpfp who had no issue, hence I considered it an option. Seems like there is mixed opinion on the matter and I can't really draw a concrete conclusion...

For sure, Greggyprep's great contribution to my planning will not carry much weight
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedude4bides View Post
how was I supposed to know it wasn't reliable... hence the thread ASKING. I didn't go out do it.

And by the way, I can afford a 40K car BECAUSE I wisely spend my money frugally, look for best VALUE/$, and know how to save a dollar.

Thank you.
its the internet some folks will just say the first thing that pops in there mind.

I ended up with the APR pump, im still breaking in the car so I have not install it yet. But I can tell you that just looking at the quality of the build you can see where the money went. I went with the core replacement so I think it was 600 or so. (we had a core just hanging out) but any APR dealer should be able to sell you the core replacement version if you are willing to let go of the pump on there now.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:52 PM   #14
MKV727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedude4bides View Post
I've seen posts by folks who run autotech hpfp who had no issue, hence I considered it an option. Seems like there is mixed opinion on the matter and I can't really draw a concrete conclusion...

For sure, Greggyprep's great contribution to my planning will not carry much weight
It's possible that the Autotech HPFP may work, they wouldn't sell a single unit otherwise. I just don't think it's a wise move on a piece that holds pressure of 130 bar, rides on your camshaft and is engine critical.

For less than $200 more you get a new piston, seals, spring to match the added mass of the piston, professionally built, flow tested and warrantied HPFP.

You literally are just given a piston with the Autotech kit and a set of instructions to do it in your garage.

With the Autotech HPFP kit you are expected to install it yourself and most people who install this kit are not entirely sure how the HPFP system operates or appreciate the level of precision that needs to go into the process.

Here is how an Autotech HPFP could be a foolproof system. You would need to perform this install in a clean room as dust particles at high camshaft speed and at 130 bar are not good. You would want to assemble it with the proper gloves as some of the pieces are sensitive to finger prints. You would want to replace all of the seals that are broken when the HPFP is disassembled as that's how OEM does it and when it's initially put together the seals aren't intended to be reused. You would want a spring that is matched to the new mass of the piston but also designed not to increase cam follower wear. Ideally you would like to check the solenoid and pressure test the system before putting it into the vehicle. Autotech should also warranty the parts they sell instead of selling "as-is" with instructions.

So to do it to the standards of the APR HPFP you would need the following:

1) A proper clean room.
2) Intimate understanding of the HPFP and a method of installing the parts without scarring up the internals.
3) A brand new set of OEM seals to insure no leakage.
4) You would need to dedign a solid custom machine to simulate real conditions that the HPFP would encounter to flow test the system.
5) A spring that is custom designed to the added mass of the piston and will not increase wear on the cam follower.

If you had the ability to perform all of the above with the Autotech HPFP kit then it would be a competitor to the APR piece. The Autotech kit is a rip off in comparison, it really is if you sit down and think about it. There will be people that have had success but buying 2 inferior kits and the damage associated with it costs more than doing it correctly once especially on a $35000 vehicle.

There is a reason why Motorsport teams are running the APR HPFP and APR is the only manufacturer of HPFP other than Hitachi for our platform.
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