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Old 02-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #21
SweetJones_29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reelknead1 View Post
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this. The EA888 engine is the engine that is currently in Golf R in generation 2. This would be another revised engine of that motor which i understand but I thought the new motor going into the Mk7 GTI was a Gen 2 of the current Mk6 engine?

With this article it sounds like the EA888 is coming in the form of a refresh for the GLI. If that is correct, I would assume that the GTI would also come with that motor with the same output. I guess there is more questions then answers at this point but what was the point of developing the motor that is currently in the GTI if they kill it off after 6 years?
The EA113 is the Golf R and Mk5 engine. The EA888 is the TSI engine. So it is a revision of the current MK6 engine.

http://www.golf********.co.uk/index.php?topic=131433.0
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SweetJones_29 View Post
The EA113 is the Golf R and Mk5 engine. The EA888 is the TSI engine. So it is a revision of the current MK6 engine.

http://www.golf********.co.uk/index.php?topic=131433.0
Ah... That makes a lot more sense then. Thank you very much!

Now the question is will the new GTI have the same tune as the GLI and get 210hp or will they bump it up? Maybe offer a performance package for 230hp but the base comes with 210hp.

That or they could do a refresh of the GLI in the spring of 2014 when the GTI comes out and up the power in both of them?

I guess only time will tell.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:05 PM   #23
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The annoying thing is if they are not going to bring all the new feature to the North American MK7, which from the powerpoint it looks like the lack of MPI, new cooling management and Valvelift might be a market specific change, does that mean those feature will be on the EU spec car? And also this signals the possibility that if they are removing those items on the cars here, we might not get the new E-LSD and other things that the EU cars might get. Especially considering that something like the cooling managment and MPI will not only make the engine more powerful, they also improves emission and fuel economy...if those are consider unnecessary, E-LSD is something even less important for the car...
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:07 PM   #24
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Originally they were stating that two power versions of the mkvii gti would be available. They were something like 210 and 230 hp versions but the 230 hp version came with some extra goodies like an electrically controlled mechanical LSD.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
Golf R has EA113. Which was the engine MK5 GTI comes with, but with K04 instead of K03, among other things. I don't actually know why the new EA888 is a gen 3 though? Is the MK6 GTI 2.0T Gen 1 or Gen 2?
i think ours is Gen 2, they have a EA888 1.8T one before the 2.0T
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:28 PM   #26
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The gen 3 is definitely less of a performance version than the gen 2. VW definitely isn't concerned with the aftermarket on these and is moving more toward green.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #27
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The gen 3 is definitely less of a performance version than the gen 2. VW definitely isn't concerned with the aftermarket on these and is moving more toward green.
Should start to think of another name for the car than gti then
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:37 PM   #28
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The gen 3 is definitely less of a performance version than the gen 2. VW definitely isn't concerned with the aftermarket on these and is moving more toward green.
What makes you say that? The full beef Gen 3 is no less "performance oriented" than anything gen 2...its just it looks like the NA market specific version won't be the full beef version....
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #29
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Motors for US will be made in Mexico. Aren't current 2.0 TSI euro produced and shipped to Mexico for GLI/Turbo Beetle assembly?

Also, plastic oil pan? Wtf!

My first GTI is looking to definitely be a MK6. Not to say MK7 won't be good, but I can't see the first year or two being relatively problem free given VW's track record. Significant motor revision, different plant location for GTI production, new front diff, and of course the new MQB architecture. Just seems like a lot of new stuff for one generation.

I'll take the last model year of the MK6. Regardless of make/model, anyone I know that has the last production year of a vehicle has had a virtually trouble free experience.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:53 PM   #30
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I actually disagree with some saying that this car is less performance oriented. It may not come with all the new tech but the basic motor will help tuners produce power out of the motor. Look at the amount of power the A4 makes with a K04 vs the GTI with K04. All that tech doesn't always mean more power.

Again though we won't know until we get the motor to play with
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by reelknead1 View Post
I actually disagree with some saying that this car is less performance oriented. It may not come with all the new tech but the basic motor will help tuners produce power out of the motor. Look at the amount of power the A4 makes with a K04 vs the GTI with K04. All that tech doesn't always mean more power.

Again though we won't know until we get the motor to play with
it just means more things that will break haha
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #32
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it just means more things that will break haha
Exactly. I'd give up 10-15hp of a difference on a stage 3 car if it means i don't have to worry about a water pump failure or a timing chain tensioner. Maybe that's just me though. I don't plan on buying a Mk7 so I guess it doesn't matter to me. Hopefully the S3 has a baller engine.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:07 PM   #33
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We don't need more tech we just need a ttrs minded gti. A 2.5 turbo gti to shut us up then the standard gti for everyone else. I think there would be a huge market for that under 40k
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
What makes you say that? The full beef Gen 3 is no less "performance oriented" than anything gen 2...its just it looks like the NA market specific version won't be the full beef version....
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noize View Post
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design
Those are some good points. I haven't had a chance to read through the PDF as i'm currently working on a wonderful Tax Memo for a client. I'll have to read through it when I get home.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:49 PM   #36
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Guys, according to this from Jayscarblog (the new askavwsalesguy site) the gen 3 1.8L TSI WILL come with both port and DI. He says it's closely related to the new 2.0L GLI/ Beetle Turbo motor. I wonder why the new GTI version would be different...?

See below:



Donít call it a come back! New 1.8T engine will replace the 2.5 this year
by Jay Pichardo ∑ 0 comments Follow me on Twitter


So long 2.5L engine! Volkswagen has made it official that it will replace the 2.5L engine in the Jetta and Beetle this year. The Passat will get this same engine later on as well. This 3rd generation engine features both port and direct fuel injection for increased efficiency and lower emissions. This engine is closely related to the 2.0T version we will see in the next GLI and Beetle Turbo later in the year. This engine is in no way, shape or form related to the old 20V 1.8T engine from the 4th gen GTI.

If you are interested in learning more about this new 1.8T engine you can read the technical sheet we have posted Here and Here.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:57 PM   #37
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why the fuq would they take variable valve timing out???

that is just astronomically stupid.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noize View Post
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design
Length of stroke does not affect your ability to rev. Long stroke with a short rod ratio from a low deck height is what prevents revs. As long as there is sufficient deck height to accommodate a long rod to stroke ratio you will be able to rev the piss out of it. What you dont want is to have a long stroke with short rods, exacerbating the angle of the rod from the piston wrist pin to the crank, making relative rod speed too high. And even then you dont need to worry about this stuff until north of 8 grand, which you will never ever rev that car to anyway.

removing the manifold and mounting the turbo right to the heads is profit.

Last edited by KurtP; 02-12-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:01 PM   #39
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Just skimming through this, a few things I've noticed.
  • Turbo is not integrated into manifold. Manifold is integrated into the head. Should facilitate easier turbo swaps.
  • Turbo looks to be twin-scroll, could be wrong, but it sure looks it
  • Port and DI
  • Crankshaft looks pretty weak in comparison to both TSI and FSI crank
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
Length of stroke does not affect your ability to rev. Long stroke with a short rod ratio from a low deck height is what prevents revs.

removing the manifold and mounting the turbo right to the heads is profit.
Have heard from a couple people the reason we aren't seeing tuners raise the limit on tunes has to do with the hpfp. Something about the number of lobes on it I think.

APR posted a long time ago about some easy big hp turbo swap on the new motor. Maybe they could jump in with some info.
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