My Adventures installing the Tyrolsport Subframe Collar Kit

I had an extremely tough time with the Tyrolsport Deadset Rigid Subframe Collar Kit installation. I wanted to share my story to teach would-be installers what not to do and maybe soak up some sympathy along the way. I'll do my best to keep it concise and brief.

I installed the Tyrolsport Deadset Rigid Subframe Collar Kit after removing my subframe to install a clutch. On assembly, I couldn't get one of the provided ARP bolts to thread into the frame without meeting some serious resistance. It didn't feel like it was even clearing TS's collar. I noted it had a somewhat bulbous mass on one of the threads, so I contacted Tyrolsport and they shipped out a new one as soon as business opened up on Monday. In the meantime I just reused the stock stretch bolt, torqued to spec. All is good, and I felt TS had my back for what I thought was an innocent-enough manufacturing defect in the bolt.

Bolt location #4 was the trouble child.


So 4 or 5 weeks after the clutch install I had the opportunity to replace that stock bolt with the fresh bolt shipped by TS. This time, I met the same resistance as before! The bolt was straight so I didn't suspect cross-threading. I gave it a quarter-turn to see if the resistance would let up, but it just got even harder. So I pulled the bolt out and see the threads had been stripped off. All sorts of things are going through my head but mostly I'm concerned about the threads in my frame! The stock bolt wouldn't go back in without cross-threading, no matter how hard I tried to force it into threading true. What would I do if the threads in my frame had been stripped??

From right to left: The first bolt, the second, now stripped bolt, then the stock stretch bolt that cross-threaded.


I wasn't getting anything into the frame and I wasn't driving around without a bolt holding in the subframe, so I borrowed a car for the week and contacted TS for yet another bolt. They didn't give me any troubles with this, either, which I'm thankful for. Yet I'll have to remove the subframe again to fix those threads so I wasted $130 and an afternoon away from work to get an alignment. Peachy!

That takes us to this weekend. I'd taken the subframe off and propped up the LCA. The threads in the frame were indeed damaged, but not beyond repair. I tapped the threads clean and took a few grams of metal out with the tap. I tested the new threads first with a dummy bolt (the size is M12x1.5, pretty common) and then with the new TS bolt. All's well. I re-installed the subframe leaving the trouble bolt for last. Upon threading the new bolt, I hit the SAME RESISTANCE again!!

The frame threads before cleaning:




I pull the bolt out and the threads are stripped right off. [insert rage here] This is the fourth bolt compromised by some issue I apparently haven't identified yet. Am I going another week without my car, putting miles on someone else's? Will TS even ship me another?!

Off with the subframe again. This time I notice the collar looks terrible. I think the collar must have been getting caught between the frame threads and the bolt threads. Torn pieces of the collar would get squeezed between the bolt and frame threads and generally wreak havoc on my frame. So I tapped the threads out for a second time and take out about a gram of metal. Again I test the threads and, since they hold my weight, I feel good about using them again. I don't have any good bolts to use so I ground down the first few threads of one of the ARP bolts. I installed the subframe without the troubled collar and the bolt threaded up beautifully.

Pictures wouldn't do this piece justice. It's HD so open the link in youtube and watch it full screen: http://youtu.be/Mdv9vWlSwhw


Parting thoughts. I didn't write this to denounce TS's product, I just wanted to throw out a word of caution to those installing their kit. DON'T FORCE ANYTHING. If it's not going well, suck it up and remove the collar. It's far better than what I went through and I didn't even finish with the full set installed.

tl;dr: One of the collars got caught between my frame and the bolt, stripping the bolt, frame threads and collar to pieces. Don't force anything, better to not install the collar at all if you're met with resistance during the install.

Lastly, I have a definite clunking sound from the subframe on hard bumps. I think it's the sway bar, but there's no gap between it and the subframe. Anyone experience this?

Thanks for the warnings. I'm planning to get a shop to install both Tyrol kits (fr & r) for me in a few weeks. I'm not much of a mechanic but thought I might be able to do it myself - but stories like yours make me think its best for a shop that has experience to do it. Hopefully they won't have this problem. I notice some folks recommend the tapered Audi bolts versus some of the bolts TyrolSport provides....not sure if this would have helped you (with the #4 bolt that gave you problems). Hope all is fixed now.

I have some clunking (sometimes quite a bit) - that didn't exist prior to my coilover install (with 34 mounts). My shop says everything looks good...nothing loose. I can almost hear and feel the subframe bolts shifting around. So this is what I think my problem is even though it directly coincided with the Koni coiliver install (had the same coilovers & mounts on my 2010 with little or no clunking)...come to think of it its even worse not with the SuperPro control arms & Ball joints....probably multiple noisemakers - though I'm hoping the supframe kit calms it down...I'm using a stock front sway BTW...

I had the thunking sound. I had to re tighten the sway bar bushings. Make sure you screwed it in after making sure the holes are aligned, and tighten it nice and snug.

Hard the same subframe problem - after 20 hours of work as you probably know, I had to use the stock bolt with no bushings to get it to grab and hold.

What an absolute disaster

Fleron230 said:

Hard the same subframe problem - after 20 hours of work as you probably know, I had to use the stock bolt with no bushings to get it to grab and hold.

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Yeah it's a HELL of a lot of work once something goes wrong, isn't it?! It's one of the worst jobs I've had to do. Frustrating moments were more numerous during the clutch job, but this was more frustrating than any of those challenges. To put it into perspective...

I had the thunking sound. I had to re tighten the sway bar bushings. Make sure you screwed it in after making sure the holes are aligned, and tighten it nice and snug.

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See the thunk sounds a LOT like a sway bar. But I can see that there's no gap between the way bar bushing/brackets and the top of the subframe. Maybe the bracket threads are bad or something? IDK. Not sure what can go wrong there other than those brackets aren't held down well! Maybe the ball-ends are 'bad'? Maybe there's something else loose? I banged on the tie-rods, the electric steering system and the LCA mounts and nothing moves.

Edit: cross-linking these threads: http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1421467

Winoman said:

Thanks for the warnings. I'm planning to get a shop to install both Tyrol kits (fr & r) for me in a few weeks. I'm not much of a mechanic but thought I might be able to do it myself - but stories like yours make me think its best for a shop that has experience to do it. Hopefully they won't have this problem. I notice some folks recommend the tapered Audi bolts versus some of the bolts TyrolSport provides....not sure if this would have helped you (with the #4 bolt that gave you problems). Hope all is fixed now.

I have some clunking (sometimes quite a bit) - that didn't exist prior to my coilover install (with 34 mounts). My shop says everything looks good...nothing loose. I can almost hear and feel the subframe bolts shifting around. So this is what I think my problem is even though it directly coincided with the Koni coiliver install (had the same coilovers & mounts on my 2010 with little or no clunking)...come to think of it its even worse not with the SuperPro control arms & Ball joints....probably multiple noisemakers - though I'm hoping the supframe kit calms it down...I'm using a stock front sway BTW...

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A shop would at least do the fixing for you. And I bet any mechanics with decent experience are laughing at me for trying to force bolts into the frame. It was a terrible idea. Hindsight is 20-20 and all.

thedude4bides said:

What an absolute disaster

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Yeah it felt that way. :laugh:

ack....having second thoughts on getting this now

You tightened/torqued down all bolts before that last one? Shouldn't you have tightened them all evenly to ensure everything is flush?

Not to take away from your experience, it seemed terrible and I'm sorry to hear that. I know the feeling... (see K04 build thread in sig).

Facccccckkkk...wow, that is super frustrating. I think I would have just blown the car up.

I had this kit installed by a shop using a lift, and it took quite a bit of adjustment and wiggling by the tech to make it all go together.

Yours is not the only story about the difficulties associated with this kit, but it is definitely the worst. Sorry, man.

i actually had the same issue happen to me and this happened with a shop doing it for me. I ordered a new bolt and replacement collar and bolt from TS and did the install myself the second time around. Went much much better than when the shop did it.

I had a Collar break on me.... TS was quick to fix the issue.

first off Thanks for posting this because I was considering ding this myself. I think I will have a shop do it now and bite the bullet. I am surprised the collars are doing that because they are supposed to be strong enough to keep the sub frame from shifting, but did this with tq from a wrench? I mean you couldn't have been putting that much tq on it. mmmmm. Curious on that one.

I dont have any clunking on my car, but I hit a BAD pothole doing about 60mph and my car hasn't tracked right since. My Dad and I went old school and took out the tape measures and the Toe was off a tad. We corrected the toe, the car tracks better, but now here some resonated sound which I believe is the tires. So this tells me Camber or Caster must be off since the tires are cupping on the outside from what I can see. My guess is the pot hole hit shifted the sub frame just enough to throw it off just so slightly to cause the tires to make the sound.

What a PITA. Why VW. Why?? haha.

Sucks your going through this nightmare, its sad though these bolts even need to be replaced. I mean sub frame shifting?? In New Modern cars?? My Gosh we are in 1980 or what??

Jeff

OP, sorry about your nightmare subframe TS collar story but thanks for sharing to alert others. When installing the TS collars/washers, you are correct in that you should NOT FORCE any of them in. Additionally, as Desert MVIGTI wrote...

Desert MVIGTI said:

...........
I had this kit installed by a shop using a lift, and it took quite a bit of adjustment and wiggling by the tech to make it all go together.

...........................

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Some additional tips for others who aren't scared off in trying this install:
1-If you're also installing a new front sway bar and/or SuperPro or Whiteline ALK kit, it would be wise to skip the TS Collar install for another day. I had a frustrating time just putting (bolting) my front suspension back together after my FSB and WALK install so I ended up installing the TS collars a few days later.
2-Aside from the obvious transmission dogbone bolts removal, loosing all six main subframe bolts but do not remove entirely.
3-Install each TS collar one at a time and ensure each bolt is threading correctly to avoid strippage. (This is where the wiggling helps a ton.) The last one will be the toughest.
4-You may want to do install the ARP bolts last, or one first and the other last. If you install these first you will have very little subframe wiggle room.
5-A short thick chisel or crowbar will help you separate the subframe from the mainframe to allow each collar to be inserted.
6-An extra set of hands helps especially if you're doing this job on jack stands. (Speaking from my own experience. )

I'm happy with this mod because I feel with the Whiteline ALK and front inner urethane bushings I installed would most likely shift the subframe a lot. I'm sure the TyrolSport deadset collars are doing there job as I get zero clunk up front :thumbup:

I had this problem, as the mech who installed it fucked it up and resulted in one ofthe ARP bolt stripped and slightly bent. But Audi bolt which replaced it went in fine.

Then I ordered new ARP bolt and had to really take my time to do it right. It is very tough to do and requires a lot of lubrication and a test of patience.

First I loosen all of the bolts and replaced the 4 subframe bolts with a fresh new Audi bolts but I did not tighten them just yet. Then with the ARP bolt lubricated I slowly put them in one by one. The difficult part is the collar needed to be reshaped with the ARP bolt thread. To do this I insert and remove the bolt, and each time I insert the bolt I was able to get the bolt to reach higher and higher. And to make it passed the collars, I had to push the bolts up while I use socket ratchet to turn it clockwise. The bolt's section which don't have the thread is bigger to ensure lockdown

Once it passed the collar, the ARP bolts were able to go into the chassis easily. - but I still take my time and do so slowly.

And that's with subframe craddle supporting the subframe.

Once the ARP bolts are in I just leave it there without tigthetning them and torqued the 4 other subframe bolt. Then I simply add more turn for the ARP bolt but not to tigthen them. Then I added the extra turn for the 4 subframe bolt, and finally torque the ARP bolt.

The whole process is a bitch to do, but assembling IKEA furnitures helps building the necessary skills to do this job! I don't know how's the ARP bolts are and I'm not interested to find out by removing it again. But the ARP bolts did go in smoothly without any resistance once it passed the Tyrol collars.

APRMK6GTi said:

ack....having second thoughts on getting this now

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Get it, just take really good care installing it. And take care of yourself through the install. Lack of patience/food/potty breaks leads to my situation. Back out of situations that seem like problems and accept that it'll take another try, or some extra test-fitting.

lilfleck said:

You tightened/torqued down all bolts before that last one? Shouldn't you have tightened them all evenly to ensure everything is flush?

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Well it's not a part that can not be flush. It's either on or not on, x/y location notwithstanding. To that end, I did selectively tighten the bolts such that it would be located best. I inserted all bolts so that they're threading, tightened the 18mm subframe bolts first, then the LCA mounts, then the ARP bolts, then the sway bar bolts last. TS's instructions cover this to an extent. Since I had trouble with bolt #4 I decided to come back to it after the other bolts were torqued a bit.

I decided not to include all this detail in the OP to keep it short. Another detail I didn't note in the OP is that I didn't completely remove the subframe in the first install as per TS's instructions. Also, I had a lift and access to air tools.

nafljhy said:

i actually had the same issue happen to me and this happened with a shop doing it for me. I ordered a new bolt and replacement collar and bolt from TS and did the install myself the second time around. Went much much better than when the shop did it.

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Time to find a new shop! :laugh: I find some shops can handle these kinds of jobs and some are just oil change/tire rotation/brake job shops. Some shops just don't have staff that are trained in critical thought.

FLtrooper said:

I had a Collar break on me.... TS was quick to fix the issue.

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TS hasn't offered a new collar, but I haven't asked outright. I'll update you all with their response.

Danz5k1 said:

I had this problem, as the mech who installed it fucked it up and resulted in one ofthe ARP bolt stripped and slightly bent. But Audi bolt which replaced it went in fine.

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You're lucky your collar didn't get caught in the frame in the process! I did have one collar that I had to tap to get the bolt through. After the tap it went in like butta.