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Old 11-19-2014, 03:04 AM   #1
socal87
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Southbend DXD Stage 2 Daily slipping at 18k miles...

I purchased a full SB DXD Stage 2 Daily kit from Achtun!ng in Redmond, WA in June 2013. Had it installed by Futrell Autowerks in Portland because cheaper labor and no sales tax. I have not abused the clutch, and my car is a DD; never been drag racing, or tracked; I have of course launched it a few times.

I noticed about a month or two ago that the engagement point seemed to be getting softer and higher (closer to the top of the pedal, as if the pressure plate wasn't applying as much pressure). Concerned, I simulated a 3000 RPM clutch dump by cruising in 6th at about 1500 RPM, then revving to 4500 and dumping it. It didn't grab...just spun and overheated. It recovered eventually, but then it started shuddering a bit on engagement. I've been taking it easy and rolling into WOT instead of hard shifts. As the days have become colder, it seems it is getting easier and easier to break hold and spin. Now at a bit over 18k miles and 17 months since it was installed, it is behaving just like my stock cluch was.

I know SouthBend has a less than stellar track record; has anyone else had issues with major slipping? I haven't had the transmission dropped to check for contamination or anything but short of a main seal leak it doesn't look like there's anything that could be a source. I'm guessing that it's shot as is so I'm about to bite the bullet on a clutch replacement way too early...thinking Clutchmasters FX100 w/o flywheel and reuse the SB SMF. The FX100 is advertised as having "70% over stock holding capacity"; assuming the stock TSI clutch is rated at about 250ft-lbf, would that mean the FX100 is rated at 425ft-lbf?
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:24 AM   #2
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Whats your power level?

No bad experiences yet on sb stage 2 daily. 8k miles. 5k on k04
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:08 AM   #3
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My southbend stage 2 daily slips a tiny bit at peak torque on apr k04 3.1. If I roll into the throttle it doesn't slip.

There is no way these clutches are meeting advertised 400ftlb holding
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:44 AM   #4
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Has anyone put a stage 3 dropin disk with tge stage2 flywheel and pressue plate?
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:54 AM   #5
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Has anyone put a stage 3 dropin disk with tge stage2 flywheel and pressue plate?
Would rather do it right and just get a proper kit. Those home made things arent really worth the chance if it goes wrong.

But i find it a little funny that alot of those "special" surface clutches that advertise they can hold the moon pulling the earth and what not, sometimes donīt hold shit. But if you take a simpel clutch like the SACHS racing clutch, nothing fancy, just plain old organic material, it holds like there is no tomorrow.

If it was me, i would go straight for the SACHS race clutch (and i already did, though i kept my upgraded DMF flywheel) and be done with it. No self adjustning, no bullshit to go wrong, its so simple it actually hurt to think about it.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:37 AM   #6
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I'm at Stage 2, running on 92 octane (in 91 mode) so the clutch as advertised should hold the power
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by socal87 View Post
The FX100 is advertised as having "70% over stock holding capacity"; assuming the stock TSI clutch is rated at about 250ft-lbf, would that mean the FX100 is rated at 425ft-lbf?
CM clutch torque ratings are based on the stock torque the car makes, so that would be 70% over 207 which puts the FX100 rated right around 350 ft lbs. I rate my clutch kits the same way, so my stage 3 Organic/Cerametalic full face clutch kit is rated at 475 ft lbs. South Bend rates their Stage 2 HD-O daily at 400 ft lbs.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:10 PM   #8
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I'm at Stage 2, running on 92 octane (in 91 mode) so the clutch as advertised should hold the power
Honestly it seems like there are some bad apples. NO reason... ABSOLUTELY NO reason an aftermarket clutch should fail on stage 2 power.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:39 PM   #9
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Honestly it seems like there are some bad apples. NO reason... ABSOLUTELY NO reason an aftermarket clutch should fail on stage 2 power.
That's what I'm thinking. And it has held well up until recently. I had my tune updated a few weeks ago, and enabled left foot braking...first time I tried it, building boost at 3000 RPM, it slipped.

It is especially bad right now. On my way home last night, it wasn't holding with any more than half throttle in 5th or 6th. This morning, it was slipping at 1/4 throttle.

I was hoping I could have it looked at under warranty but I'm outside the warranty period. I doubt it is a problem with the slave cylinder because I have about an inch or so of travel in the pedal before I meet resistance, and engagement is very very close to that point...it is not confident at all.

I'm pissed...spent $950 plus $700 labor on an aftermarket organic clutch (which are supposed to take abuse) and it is failing less than 20,000 miles later. I was hoping it just got glazed, but since it is getting progressively worse and the engagement point has been getting higher and higher, it's almost like the disc is wearing thin or something.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:09 PM   #10
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First off, why are you doing clutch drops by revving it up and dumping the clutch in 6th gear. That would seriously make any clutch slip. You're essentially revving the engine to peak torque rpm and dumping it in such a low gear...it's obviously isn't going to spin the tires, so it spins the only other thing it can, the clutch.

Either way, you shouldn't be having issues. My friend has had the original stage 2 Daily in a K04 car for about 50k with no issues.

My other friend had the stage 2 daily on a 3+ GLI (long gears, clutch takes more abuse) with no problems.

Kind of out there, I also have a friend with a Stage 3 Daily on a 3++ car (501whp) for over 50k, no issues.

I had the stage 2 endurance on my K04 car for 30k with no issues. And I'm not easy on things at all, and that was with about 10+ passes down the drag strip. When I removed it everything was still in great shape.

I am currently running a stage 3 drop in disk with a prototype pressure plate and OEM flywheel, and I have about 30k on this one as well. Including 5+ passes on Hoosier slicks.

Not to be a dick, but you guys either need to learn how to drive or get someone to install it correctly (which is pretty much impossible to screw up). Southbend is not the blame here.

EDIT: And if you think Southbend is bad, Clutchmasters clutches were failing before people even hit the 10k mark. My suggestion, buy the HS Tuning RSR and don't look back. It's a clutch meant for daily driving with easy organic materials and OEM parts.
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal87 View Post
I purchased a full SB DXD Stage 2 Daily kit from Achtun!ng in Redmond, WA in June 2013. Had it installed by Futrell Autowerks in Portland because cheaper labor and no sales tax. I have not abused the clutch, and my car is a DD; never been drag racing, or tracked; I have of course launched it a few times.

I noticed about a month or two ago that the engagement point seemed to be getting softer and higher (closer to the top of the pedal, as if the pressure plate wasn't applying as much pressure). Concerned, I simulated a 3000 RPM clutch dump by cruising in 6th at about 1500 RPM, then revving to 4500 and dumping it. It didn't grab...just spun and overheated. It recovered eventually, but then it started shuddering a bit on engagement. I've been taking it easy and rolling into WOT instead of hard shifts. As the days have become colder, it seems it is getting easier and easier to break hold and spin. Now at a bit over 18k miles and 17 months since it was installed, it is behaving just like my stock cluch was.

I know SouthBend has a less than stellar track record; has anyone else had issues with major slipping? I haven't had the transmission dropped to check for contamination or anything but short of a main seal leak it doesn't look like there's anything that could be a source. I'm guessing that it's shot as is so I'm about to bite the bullet on a clutch replacement way too early...thinking Clutchmasters FX100 w/o flywheel and reuse the SB SMF. The FX100 is advertised as having "70% over stock holding capacity"; assuming the stock TSI clutch is rated at about 250ft-lbf, would that mean the FX100 is rated at 425ft-lbf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal87 View Post
That's what I'm thinking. And it has held well up until recently. I had my tune updated a few weeks ago, and enabled left foot braking...first time I tried it, building boost at 3000 RPM, it slipped.

It is especially bad right now. On my way home last night, it wasn't holding with any more than half throttle in 5th or 6th. This morning, it was slipping at 1/4 throttle.

I was hoping I could have it looked at under warranty but I'm outside the warranty period. I doubt it is a problem with the slave cylinder because I have about an inch or so of travel in the pedal before I meet resistance, and engagement is very very close to that point...it is not confident at all.

I'm pissed...spent $950 plus $700 labor on an aftermarket organic clutch (which are supposed to take abuse) and it is failing less than 20,000 miles later. I was hoping it just got glazed, but since it is getting progressively worse and the engagement point has been getting higher and higher, it's almost like the disc is wearing thin or something.
Shit...I was going to make a post today about a similar issue. I bought my Southbend Stage 2 daily from Achtuning in Redmond, maybe October or November of 2013, had it installed by them as well, and am at 20k miles on it. I also have a clutch stop to reduce the clutch engagement point so that it had a shorter throw, but lately the throw seems to be getting longer, almost where it feels like it's back to stock (no clutch stop). I was wondering if the clutch stop has just been squished quite a bit and it's not as effective as it was, or if my clutch is starting to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *****2.0t View Post
First off, why are you doing clutch drops by revving it up and dumping the clutch in 6th gear. That would seriously make any clutch slip. You're essentially revving the engine to peak torque rpm and dumping it in such a low gear...it's obviously isn't going to spin the tires, so it spins the only other thing it can, the clutch.

Either way, you shouldn't be having issues. My friend has had the original stage 2 Daily in a K04 car for about 50k with no issues.

My other friend had the stage 2 daily on a 3+ GLI (long gears, clutch takes more abuse) with no problems.

Kind of out there, I also have a friend with a Stage 3 Daily on a 3++ car (501whp) for over 50k, no issues.

I had the stage 2 endurance on my K04 car for 30k with no issues. And I'm not easy on things at all, and that was with about 10+ passes down the drag strip. When I removed it everything was still in great shape.

I am currently running a stage 3 drop in disk with a prototype pressure plate and OEM flywheel, and I have about 30k on this one as well. Including 5+ passes on Hoosier slicks.

Not to be a dick, but you guys either need to learn how to drive or get someone to install it correctly (which is pretty much impossible to screw up). Southbend is not the blame here.

EDIT: And if you think Southbend is bad, Clutchmasters clutches were failing before people even hit the 10k mark. My suggestion, buy the HS Tuning RSR and don't look back. It's a clutch meant for daily driving with easy organic materials and OEM parts.
I don't ride my clutch, I've launched it maybe two or three times from no more than 2500rpms, never dragged it, never tracked it. I try not to have the clutch depressed unless I absolutely have to, I don't go above 1500 rpms when I take off from a stop, and once I hit the engagement point my foot comes off the clutch (never more than maybe 1 second engaging). I don't think it's an issue with driving style, I'm wondering if they received a bad batch of clutches. Afaik, achtuning no longer carries these clutches, and stopped carrying them not long after I had mine installed. Had I known about RSR when I had mine installed, that's what I'd have gone with, but it's a little late for that now.

Edit: They do carry them still, not sure why they didn't for a while.
I did call them, he said that does sound odd and he's not exactly sure why it would all of sudden start riding up higher, especially since my clutch isn't slipping currently (that I have noticed at least). The lead tech is going to call me back in a little bit and talk to me about it to see what exactly I'm experiencing, and possibly schedule me to come in so he can drive it, since he also has a stage 2 daily on his '12 GTI.
I'm about to head out to the store for some PC parts for work, I'll go WOT in 4th at around 2k rpms and see if I notice any slipping.
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Last edited by syonxwf; 11-19-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:20 PM   #12
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FWIW, I've had the SB Stage 2 Daily installed for two months now with about 4k miles on it and it's holding up fine. Even handled 3 back-to-back passes down a drag strip and dumping it from 3k RPM's with no issues including the 1.5 hour drive back home right after. I read that they had a bad batch of clutches at one point so maybe you got one of those?

But I agree with *****2.0t, you shouldn't be simulating clutch dumps while rolling in 6th. That's not good for any car with any clutch.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *****2.0t View Post
First off, why are you doing clutch drops by revving it up and dumping the clutch in 6th gear. That would seriously make any clutch slip. You're essentially revving the engine to peak torque rpm and dumping it in such a low gear...it's obviously isn't going to spin the tires, so it spins the only other thing it can, the clutch.

Either way, you shouldn't be having issues. My friend has had the original stage 2 Daily in a K04 car for about 50k with no issues.

My other friend had the stage 2 daily on a 3+ GLI (long gears, clutch takes more abuse) with no problems.

Kind of out there, I also have a friend with a Stage 3 Daily on a 3++ car (501whp) for over 50k, no issues.

I had the stage 2 endurance on my K04 car for 30k with no issues. And I'm not easy on things at all, and that was with about 10+ passes down the drag strip. When I removed it everything was still in great shape.

I am currently running a stage 3 drop in disk with a prototype pressure plate and OEM flywheel, and I have about 30k on this one as well. Including 5+ passes on Hoosier slicks.

Not to be a dick, but you guys either need to learn how to drive or get someone to install it correctly (which is pretty much impossible to screw up). Southbend is not the blame here.

EDIT: And if you think Southbend is bad, Clutchmasters clutches were failing before people even hit the 10k mark. My suggestion, buy the HS Tuning RSR and don't look back. It's a clutch meant for daily driving with easy organic materials and OEM parts.
if I'm going to spend the money on a new clutch, I want to use the single mass flywheel I have now. I don't want to buy a factory dual mass flywheel again, as I believe that is the only flywheel the RSR kit is designed for.

I realize that dumping the clutch might make it slip, especially at peak torque. My concern is, it never recovered. It seriously feels like it is completely toast. It couldn't hold when I tried brake boosting, either.

I don't know if it is my driving style. I do drive somewhat aggressively but I also know what destroys a clutch, and I haven't done that. I have used it as a performance clutch is meant to be used.

I think I'll have Achtuning look at it; I can't imagine that the flywheel or pressure plate are in bad shape, maybe hot spots, so maybe just a new disc?
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:39 PM   #14
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Should never rev and dump the clutch while driving in high gear at very low speed, to test how much life a clutch still has you should just go WOT while in high gear at low speed. This is to test if the clutch will hold or if the motor will just bog down, if it bogs down the clutch is still good and if it slips the clutch is getting close to the end of its life.

When it slipped on you that first time you pretty much scrubbed a good amount of the organic material off since that is what organic material does, so this basically cut the life span of the clutch down since the disk became thinner. Not a great thing to do with a clutch that already has a good amount of miles on it. The fact that it has been getting colder outside isn't helping either.


Just because your outside of the warranty doesn't mean you can't talk to South Bend about it now slipping at the amount of miles you have on it. If they won't warranty it they will be able to rebuild it for you at a set cost. I know you didn't buy it from me but if you need I can call up the owner of South Bend and talk to him about it.
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