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Old 10-30-2017, 06:03 AM   #85
Mk R
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Drives: Golf VI
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mataempat View Post
I am not sure. Was just browsing through the APR website(on the date that I've posted my last comment) and found out they've released the Stage 2 Map.
I had the APR stage 2 Map installed in August this year along with a turbo back Milltek exhaust. I had the turbo replaced at the same time due to shaft play after ~120,000km.

Prior to the upgrade the car was running a 2011 CAVD block (stock pistons) with a 2012 HPFP, S3 intercooler, K&N airbox/filter, DV+ diverter valve, odyssey PC680 battery and various other valve and small part replacements. It had been on the APR stage 1 map since 2014.

The Map went well initially and was a nice bump up from the stage 1. The torque curve felt much flatter and the rush was pushed up the rev range to be more turbo focused. The exhaust sound is good fun too with some pops and crackle that you don't normally get in the 6sp manual

Boost Limp

Since then I have experienced the boost limp on and off. Worth mentioning that one of the hoses from the intercooler has pretty much popped off the lower boost pipe elbow (engine side of the intercooler). Healthy peak boost for the stage 2 map on my PODI gauge was showing about 22PSI. Now it's around 18PSI, when the limp kicks in and it's limited to 15PSI.

Alternative Stage 2 Options

As far as alternative stage 2 options go here, there's REVO, Harding Performance (ex-distributor for APR in Australia) and e-tuners. I've noted Blower's comments on the AFR issue and potential knock sensor sensitivity.

I'm not in a huge rush for a new tune as it'd be an expensive exercise but would like to lose the boost limp.

Couple of questions:

Is the TMG coil spacer essential for the R8 coils?
Is there an alternative? (the TMG postage to Australia is like 100 Euro)
Would the G revision stock coils be sufficient in the absence of the R8s in your opinions?
Would you wrap your downpipe?

Last edited by Mk R; 10-30-2017 at 06:23 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:24 PM   #86
blower
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Drives: Golf GT mk6 1.4 tsi DSG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk R View Post
I had the APR stage 2 Map installed in August this year along with a turbo back Milltek exhaust. I had the turbo replaced at the same time due to shaft play after ~120,000km.

Prior to the upgrade the car was running a 2011 CAVD block (stock pistons) with a 2012 HPFP, S3 intercooler, K&N airbox/filter, DV+ diverter valve, odyssey PC680 battery and various other valve and small part replacements. It had been on the APR stage 1 map since 2014.

The Map went well initially and was a nice bump up from the stage 1. The torque curve felt much flatter and the rush was pushed up the rev range to be more turbo focused. The exhaust sound is good fun too with some pops and crackle that you don't normally get in the 6sp manual

Boost Limp

Since then I have experienced the boost limp on and off. Worth mentioning that one of the hoses from the intercooler has pretty much popped off the lower boost pipe elbow (engine side of the intercooler). Healthy peak boost for the stage 2 map on my PODI gauge was showing about 22PSI. Now it's around 18PSI, when the limp kicks in and it's limited to 15PSI.

Alternative Stage 2 Options

As far as alternative stage 2 options go here, there's REVO, Harding Performance (ex-distributor for APR in Australia) and e-tuners. I've noted Blower's comments on the AFR issue and potential knock sensor sensitivity.

I'm not in a huge rush for a new tune as it'd be an expensive exercise but would like to lose the boost limp.

Couple of questions:

Is the TMG coil spacer essential for the R8 coils?
Is there an alternative? (the TMG postage to Australia is like 100 Euro)
Would the G revision stock coils be sufficient in the absence of the R8s in your opinions?
Would you wrap your downpipe?
Yep that boost limp is a real issue - unsure the cause, could be down to EGT (linked to AFR since EGT is a calculated value), knock sensitivity or boost request beyond maximum readable value of the sensor (2550 mbar absolute).

In answer to your questions:

Is the TMG coil spacer essential for the R8 coils?

Unfortunately yes, the R8 coils are a lot longer than the stock coils. They would stick out from the cylinder head and sit way too loosly without the spacer.

Is there an alternative? (the TMG postage to Australia is like 100 Euro)

Not that i know of!

Would the G revision stock coils be sufficient in the absence of the R8s in your opinions?

To be honest they are probably fine, the R8 coils *may* allow a bit more boost before misfire with X amount of spark plug gap.

Would you wrap your downpipe?

If you have an aftermarket sports cat or straight through downpipe i would definitely wrap it, in order to protect pipework and other stuff in close proximity (i have a sports cat now and wrapped the top section). Of course don't wrap the cat itself.

The stock cat / downpipe has a lot of metal heat shielding in order to protect damage to surrounding parts so a wrap is essential on aftermarket downpipes in my opinion.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:07 PM   #87
Mk R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blower View Post
Would you wrap your downpipe?

If you have an aftermarket sports cat or straight through downpipe i would definitely wrap it, in order to protect pipework and other stuff in close proximity (i have a sports cat now and wrapped the top section). Of course don't wrap the cat itself.

The stock cat / downpipe has a lot of metal heat shielding in order to protect damage to surrounding parts so a wrap is essential on aftermarket downpipes in my opinion.
The Milltek downpipe section has the sports cat built in to the same location as the stock downpipe. The post-turbo boost pipe runs parallel to the downpipe (3-4 inches away) and the intercooler return pipe passes under the end of the downpipe (within millimetres).

Even with the S3 intercooler i'm getting noticeable heat soak after 5-10 minutes of driving. I'm considering wrapping the boost pipes and perhaps the section after the cat but am at a loss as to how to shield the cat itself without cooking it. That thing turns the engine bay into an oven and its location dumps radiant heat straight into the other pipes.

Would you wrap the whole downpipe and sports cat section? I've also shot an email to Milltek asking them so I'll let you know what they come back with.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:13 PM   #88
blower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk R View Post
Would you wrap the whole downpipe and sports cat section? I've also shot an email to Milltek asking them so I'll let you know what they come back with.
Don't wrap the cat itself - you will kill it (it will overheat and melt the internal honeycomb structure).

Only way to shield the cat itself would be to fabricate some form of heatshield - similar to whats on the stock cat.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:14 AM   #89
Mk R
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Yeah I figured as much. Hopefully wrapping the aluminium boost pipe with some glass backed metallic tape and pre + post cat downpipe in normal wrap will help.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:03 PM   #90
Mk R
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Got some responses back from the tuning companies today regarding knock sensor sensitivity settings and AFRs. The questions asked were:

Does your stage 2 map feature a reduced knock sensor setting compared to stock? and; What is the minimum AFR under the map if any?

Harding Performance:
We do not change any of the factory settings, as these are there to tell you something is not working correctly.

REVO (sales team) simply ignored the questions and referred me to a dealer:
It would be best to visit a local Revo dealer who could data log the car to see what’s happening with it. They can then compare the logs to our data sheets to see how they compare.

Waiting to hear back from the Greeks (etuners, TMG and Revlimit). Didn't bother asking APR after blowers experience.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:36 PM   #91
Mk R
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Hi again,

Sorry if this is thread jacking but i thought i'd share the responses from eTuners and TMG who both took the time to provide a more thoughtful technical response.

eTuners would be a custom dyno map by their rep here in Sydney for the car which can adjust knock sensor sensitivity settings and AFR. These can be set based on customer requests or left to the tuner to map out based on their understanding of the setup and safe parameters.

TMG can do the tune over in Greece by sending an ECU to them with the car's spec. Obviously driving from Sydney or London to Athens is inconvenient. From TMG:

The best thing is to send us the ECU and we ll send back to you.

According to Remap, when you build a new file, you adjust all filters, including knock sensors. The threshold of filtering them in a way that the car works safely is vital. We've made thousands of tests and we know exactly the threshold between power and reliability. So each filter is adjusted in respect with engine reliability.

The AFR is set to be in stage 2 around 0.77-0.8 to revlimit.
We adjust the maps in order to protect the engine, so of course we do not remove the component protection maps.
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