Let's Discuss Clutch Options (Disc, Pressure Plate, Flywheel) - Summary of discussion

[[Old User]]

I'm finding somewhat sparse information on the BFI clutches... there are a couple threads and comments here any there but nothing substantial.

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlspsarac.html

This is their "club sport" kit, like the HStuning RSR it uses a different pp and disk with the stock dmfw to retain daily driving comfort.

rated up to 407 ft/lbs, which is more than enough for me at stage 2.

anyone have any experience with this kit? Or any of the BFI kits (the stage 1/2/ etc with lighter flywheels)? my main concern is going through the hassle of buying a new clutch that retains the stock dmfw and then regretting not getting a lighter flywheel. in my opinion, the 38 pound stock flywheel really detracts from the car (rev hang, weak engine breaking, car just feels sluggish), but if a smfw is going to be miserable in daily traffic then maybe it isn't worth it. i don't mind a bit of chatter or gear lash but do not want anything crazy.

 

[TSI_Guy]

Just stick with an organic material on the clutch face and get a SMFW. It'll be fine in traffic. They rattle a bit at low RPMs and at idle, but it's not bad at all. If NVH isn't a big deal to you, you'll love it.

I daily drove my Sachs SRE Stage 2 w/SMFW in bumper to bumper for over a year. The Sachs kit has a 15lb flywheel. Every setup is different and some are louder than others.

 

[[Old User]]

Just stick with an organic material on the clutch face and get a SMFW. It'll be fine in traffic. They rattle a bit at low RPMs and at idle, but it's not bad at all. If NVH isn't a big deal to you, you'll love it.

I daily drove my Sachs SRE Stage 2 w/SMFW in bumper to bumper for over a year. The Sachs kit has a 15lb flywheel. Every setup is different and some are louder than others.

NVH is the only thing that I am somewhat sensitive to. How would you compare it to a full set of engine and transmission mounts, for example? Just trying to gauge how much comfort it will be compromising. I have all stock mounts but a neuspeed torque insert which does bother me sometimes.


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[Dans GTI]

Does anyone have experience with this SACHS clutch kit?

http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/02q-sachs-performance-sre-3-piece-clutch-kit.html

 

[[Old User]]

Does anyone have experience with this SACHS clutch kit?

http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/02q-sachs-performance-sre-3-piece-clutch-kit.html

Bumping this as I am also curious about the kit... looks suspiciously like this

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlspsarac.html

thoughts?

 

[Stage2Sasquatch]

Bumping this as I am also curious about the kit... looks suspiciously like this

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlspsarac.html

thoughts?

Half the damn kits are just the TTRS PP with a random near stock organic clutch disk haha. So basically they are all copies.

 

[proxima1]

Bumping this as I am also curious about the kit... looks suspiciously like this

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlspsarac.html

thoughts?

I haven't been following this thread for the last couple pages but I'm gonna dump my reply here. I just went through picking a clutch kit out, and actually just finished the installation last night. As a disclaimer, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just sharing my perspective and thought process when I selected my clutch.

This kit, RSR kit, Four Seasons, DIY RSR, etc ... have for the most part been using OEM parts from different cars (TTRS pressure plate, clutch disk from a TDI, etc ...). As an engineer this bothers me, as these kits weren't engineered specifically for our cars. For example, some kits have had a mismatch between the contact areas of the clutch disk and the pressure plate. What's the torque rating on these kits? How long will they last? How much and what kind of testing did they do to determine these specs? To be honest, I'm not sure what I would be signing up for with one of these kits.

Why not just get the stage 1 Sachs SRE kit? You know exactly what you are getting, Sachs makes clutches/flywheels for hundreds of cars and has an army of engineers that eat, breathe, and sleep clutch/flywheel design. Not to downplay the different tuning shops, I'm sure they have good intentions, but they need to sell parts, and they simply don't have the same resources that Sachs does. And actually, the kits they are putting together have parts made by Sachs. If you are going to get an up-rated clutch kit with parts made by Sachs, why not get the parts that Sachs says are best for your application?

Looking at the BFI kit, for example, with the one-piece TOB and shipping it's $875. If I was going to save a ton of money on this kit, I would consider it. But the Sachs kit is actually much cheaper. I recently bought the sachs sre stage 1 kit direct from sachs, with the aluminum 1-piece TOB. Buying direct from them in Germany was easy, they take paypal.
After all the fees and shipping, my final cost was $715.59, they had the kit on my doorstop in under 48 hours.

Look, if you go with one of the "____ tuning clutch kits", enough people have been guinea pigs by now that you will probably be alright. But at the end of the day, why pay more money to put Sachs parts, made for different cars, on your car? You can just get the correct performance parts for less money.

 

[Dans GTI]

Bumping this as I am also curious about the kit... looks suspiciously like this

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlspsarac.html

thoughts?

I'm in contact with a UK clutch distributor and they confirmed the link i posted earlier will not work. But this is what they came back with, rated for 400 TQ, to be used with a DMFW.

Flywheel 06J 105 266 H 2294 000 838 - £250
SRE Cover 883082 001422 - £245 - http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....plate-for-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel.html
SRE Disc 881864 999502 - £210 - http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....-disc-for-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel.html
Bearing 0A5 141 671 F 3182 600 197 - £40 - http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....se-bearing-for-6-speed-02m-02q-gearboxes.html

Not counting the cost of a new flywheel, your looking at $608 US dollars for a clutch kit.

They also gave the option of a SACHS Race kit with a SMFW.

Sachs Race SMF Kit w CSC 883089 000046 - £875 - http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/sachs-performance-clutch-kit-883089-000046.html

I haven't been following this thread for the last couple pages but I'm gonna dump my reply here. I just went through picking a clutch kit out, and actually just finished the installation last night. As a disclaimer, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just sharing my perspective and thought process when I selected my clutch.

This kit, RSR kit, Four Seasons, DIY RSR, etc ... have for the most part been using OEM parts from different cars (TTRS pressure plate, clutch disk from a TDI, etc ...). As an engineer this bothers me, as these kits weren't engineered specifically for our cars. For example, some kits have had a mismatch between the contact areas of the clutch disk and the pressure plate. What's the torque rating on these kits? How long will they last? How much and what kind of testing did they do to determine these specs? To be honest, I'm not sure what I would be signing up for with one of these kits.

Why not just get the stage 1 Sachs SRE kit? You know exactly what you are getting, Sachs makes clutches/flywheels for hundreds of cars and has an army of engineers that eat, breathe, and sleep clutch/flywheel design. Not to downplay the different tuning shops, I'm sure they have good intentions, but they need to sell parts, and they simply don't have the same resources that Sachs does. And actually, the kits they are putting together have parts made by Sachs. If you are going to get an up-rated clutch kit with parts made by Sachs, why not get the parts that Sachs says are best for your application?

Looking at the BFI kit, for example, with the one-piece TOB and shipping it's $875. If I was going to save a ton of money on this kit, I would consider it. But the Sachs kit is actually much cheaper. I recently bought the sachs sre stage 1 kit direct from sachs, with the aluminum 1-piece TOB. Buying direct from them in Germany was easy, they take paypal.
After all the fees and shipping, my final cost was $715.59, they had the kit on my doorstop in under 48 hours.

Look, if you go with one of the "____ tuning clutch kits", enough people have been guinea pigs by now that you will probably be alright. But at the end of the day, why pay more money to put Sachs parts, made for different cars, on your car? You can just get the correct performance parts for less money.

Thats what bothers me as well, where did you get you SACHS stage 1 kit from? Could you please post that link?

 

[[Old User]]

Yeah I'm pretty on the fence about keeping my DMFW, but after listening to some videos of smfw chatter, I don't think I want to deal with that again. Lol.

The RSR is just so much money for an OEM disc and pressure plate that gets used with a stock flywheel... I can't stomach 1000$ for 2/3rds of a new clutch.


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[Dans GTI]

Yeah I'm pretty on the fence about keeping my DMFW, but after listening to some videos of smfw chatter, I don't think I want to deal with that again. Lol.

The RSR is just so much money for an OEM disc and pressure plate that gets used with a stock flywheel... I can't stomach 1000$ for 2/3rds of a new clutch.


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The DIY RSR kit is about 900-1000$ WITH a new fly wheel.

 

[zrickety]

My .02, I agree with Proxima. If I were in the market for a clutch, I would be all over the uprated Sachs kits that are available in Europe. I would get their SMF as well. I believe a company here was offering them, but I would guess they were drop shipped from Germany.

 

[Dans GTI]

My .02, I agree with Proxima. If I were in the market for a clutch, I would be all over the uprated Sachs kits that are available in Europe. I would get their SMF as well. I believe a company here was offering them, but I would guess they were drop shipped from Germany.

I was offered this option, but i have no idea how hard the clutch will be or how loud the chatter will be.

http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/sachs-performance-clutch-kit-883089-000046.html

Going through UK forums people don't seem to like SACHS.

 

[proxima1]

Thats what bothers me as well, where did you get you SACHS stage 1 kit from? Could you please post that link?

No problem, this is the kit I bought:

https://www.sachsperformance.com/de/kupplung/performance-kupplung-sachs/kupplungssatz-001422-999502

And the throwout bearing:

https://www.sachsperformance.com/en/clutch-kit/zf-sachs/clutch-central-slave-cylinder-613182654150

Prices on the website include the 19% VAT tax, but when you put in your shipping address they take that off automatically. I believe the picture of the above TOB is the two-piece version, but I received the aluminum 1-piece(perhaps they updated the part, but not the picture?).

I read that kit # 001422-999502 is for Sachs DMFW only, and that there is a different part # for Luk DMFW. When I ordered I asked them to verify that I had the correct parts for my vehicle('09 MkV TSI) and that I planned on using a Sachs DMFW.

I used the Sachs DMF91158 flywheel, if you shop around you can find it for around $450. I had some difficulty finding the Sachs part #, but it's listed as compatible for my '09 MkV TSI.

I've only put 5 miles on everything thus far and am really happy with it. If I run into any problems I'll report back.

If installing yourself, there are a couple of tools you may want to make things easier. I like taking the money saved on doing the labor myself, buy the right tools and make sure its done the right way.

Flywheel holding tool:

http://www.dieselgeek.com/VW_3067_Flywheel_Holding_Tool_p/dsg-tool.htm

Clutch alignment tool:
Part # T10097, both HSTuning and ECS tuning make their own version which is the same thing.

I found that detailed parts diagrams were hard to find. Here's a link I have saved to the trans fasteners diagram, you can find the other diagrams from the link:

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/catalog/vw/markt/USA/modell/GOV/year/2010/drive_standart/685/hg_ug/300/subcategory/300076/part_id/3706589/lang/e

I didn't have a Bentley manual, but I found a PDF with all the torque specs from the A3, which shares a lot parts with the GTI:

https://blogvager.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/10-audi_a3_qsb_web.pdf

I also opted to replace the rear main while in there. There is now an aftermarket spring seal that appears to be way better than the flimsy oem one:

http://vag.excelerateperformance.com/iabed-indusrtiees/ea8881-06h-06j-06k-06l-rear-main-seal-replaces-06h103171f/462103171f/i-2433730.aspx

For the rear main, they recommend Reinzosil, there are a couple different versions with different temp ratings(200 C or 300 C). I opted for Reinzosil #00004320435 with the higher temp rating.

Also, for loctite, there are different versions of blue. I opted for Loctite Blue #243 which has some resistance to oil when curing compared to the normal Blue.

Anyways, more info than you asked for. Hopefully others find it useful.

EDIT: In my clutch kit, I received a non self-adjusting pressure plate. I was actually relieved as I didn't have to worry about resetting it myself. However, the engagement or bite point is a bit higher than stock, I just added a clutch bump stop to avoid bending the pressure plate fingers more than necessary when disengaged.

 

[proxima1]

I was offered this option, but i have no idea how hard the clutch will be or how loud the chatter will be.

http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/sachs-performance-clutch-kit-883089-000046.html

Going through UK forums people don't seem to like SACHS.

I haven't seen that kit before. You might ask them if it's the Sachs SRE sprung disk and pressure plate paired with their own flywheel. If so, you can expect peddle feel to be the same as the SRE kit, which is a bit harder than stock but still pretty manageable.

What were the main complaints in the UK about the Sachs kit? My impression was that it was the go-to kit over there, though I admittedly haven't spent a lot of time on those forums.

 

[Dans GTI]

I haven't seen that kit before. You might ask them if it's the Sachs SRE sprung disk and pressure plate paired with their own flywheel. If so, you can expect peddle feel to be the same as the SRE kit, which is a bit harder than stock but still pretty manageable.

What were the main complaints in the UK about the Sachs kit? My impression was that it was the go-to kit over there, though I admittedly haven't spent a lot of time on those forums.

I've been doing research for the past 2 hours (slow morning at work), this kit below is actually popular, quite a few people from this forum have installed this kit and its been holding up really well. Its also a general go to kit for people across the world.

This kit is easily rated for 400tq but people are stating that SACHS is very conservative with that number. It comes out to $1150 shipped. A few years back this kit cost about $1500-1800 shipped. Which is great for us now.

http://www.clutchstop.co.uk/products/sachs-performance-clutch-kit-883089-000046.html

Reading UK forums i think there is nothing wrong with SACHS some people are just stating that they have crappy clutches with no backing behind their word. So i take those comments with a grain of salt now.

I reached out to SACHS directly asking if they have a performance kit with a DMFW option.

I also reached out on UK forums asking if they have their own clutch options that they use on their side of the world.