Adding auxiliary radiator

[Keehs360]

Ah, nobody here is claiming direct replacement is superior. It was the other way around. Also, do you really think the sandwich location was an economy car cost cutting technique? If so, then why did they keep it the same for the CSS and TCR models overseas? Hell, even the TCR race car doesn't have a fmic.

Oh I’ll be brave enough and claim fmic is superior. Shit I’ll be bold enough to say a 500 cubic inch front mount is superior to a 1100 inch stock location. I saw the logs to back that up. The fmic behavior on and then off boost was much more responsive.

if y’all wanna see those logs. Jump on Reddit. Start a thread requesting is38 swap logs.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Ah, nobody here is claiming direct replacement is superior. It was the other way around. Also, do you really think the sandwich location was an economy car cost cutting technique? If so, then why did they keep it the same for the CSS and TCR models overseas? Hell, even the TCR race car doesn't have a fmic.

In a consumer user car they will prioritize comfort for performance. The design of the car and it’s accompanied systems that require and heat exchanger to properly work in our situation is - AC, coolant, intake air. Of those 3 the one that requires the largest deltas to properly work is the AC as it’s going from anymore around or above 300 and trying to get back down to 30s , then Intake air at 300-400 degrees down to a delta of 20-30 over ambient (referring to stock designs and goals) then you have coolant thats only having to drop something like 50 degrees. So it’s easy to see why the placement is that of After the ac condenser and before the radiator. The fact still remains the heat exchanger getting the First contact of the fresh ambient temp air will be the most efficient when considering actually volume for volume.


Race TRC doesn’t have AC, and the radiators is reworked in a heat extraction direct out if the hood vent, so the Intercooler is now indeed the front mount now as it’s first in the path.

In a stock setup if you remove the AC condenser you will have a set up that has the intercooler as front mounted now and just having some air path cut by the crash bar.

 

[GTI Jake]

S3, CSS, TCR and Golf R are all still just MQB cars so yes it’s absolutely cost cutting. The whole point of MQB is it’s cheaper to make everything the same, that’s why VW makes record profits.

The TCR race car DOES have a true FMIC, and ducting for the air flow in the bumper and out the hood.

 

[Keehs360]

S3, CSS, TCR and Golf R are all still just MQB cars so yes it’s absolutely cost cutting. The whole point of MQB is it’s cheaper to make everything the same, that’s why VW makes record profits.

The TCR race car DOES have a true FMIC, and ducting for the air flow in the bumper and out the hood.

The mqb platform has enabled vw and Audi to make straight bank! They can stretch it. Make it more narrow and wider and everything in between. Plus it really elevates the comfort and performance of cars built on it. Mqb is really really good. But the cost cutting is obvious.

 

[GTI Jake]

The mqb platform has enabled vw and Audi to make straight bank! They can stretch it. Make it more narrow and wider and everything in between. Plus it really elevates the comfort and performance of cars built on it. Mqb is really really good. But the cost cutting is obvious.

I love Mk7s as much as anyone, but there’s no getting around they’re economy cars (not a bad thing, just a fact).

What VAG was able to accomplish with the MQB platform is awesome. Record profits, record sales, rebuilt brand loyalty & trust after dieselgate, plus not to mention championships with the TCR race cars & FCP euro.

 

[Keehs360]

I love Mk7s as much as anyone, but there’s no getting around they’re economy cars (not a bad thing, just a fact).

What VAG was able to accomplish with the MQB platform is awesome. Record profits, record sales, rebuilt brand loyalty & trust after dieselgate, plus not to mention championships with the TCR race cars & FCP euro.

I agree, the GTI is built to a price point. That's for sure. I find it funner to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow lol

 

[JerseyDrew77]

In a consumer user car they will prioritize comfort for performance. The design of the car and it’s accompanied systems that require and heat exchanger to properly work in our situation is - AC, coolant, intake air. Of those 3 the one that requires the largest deltas to properly work is the AC as it’s going from anymore around or above 300 and trying to get back down to 30s , then Intake air at 300-400 degrees down to a delta of 20-30 over ambient (referring to stock designs and goals) then you have coolant thats only having to drop something like 50 degrees. So it’s easy to see why the placement is that of After the ac condenser and before the radiator. The fact still remains the heat exchanger getting the First contact of the fresh ambient temp air will be the most efficient when considering actually volume for volume.


Race TRC doesn’t have AC, and the radiators is reworked in a heat extraction direct out if the hood vent, so the Intercooler is now indeed the front mount now as it’s first in the path.

In a stock setup if you remove the AC condenser you will have a set up that has the intercooler as front mounted now and just having some air path cut by the crash bar.

Now you're getting too technical. We can't have that here so K.I.S.S.

S3, CSS, TCR and Golf R are all still just MQB cars so yes it’s absolutely cost cutting. The whole point of MQB is it’s cheaper to make everything the same, that’s why VW makes record profits.

The TCR race car DOES have a true FMIC, and ducting for the air flow in the bumper and out the hood.

Fine, whatever. I'll let you win this time but front mount is considered to be in the very front of the bumber, as in you can visually see it there. VW doesn't call it a fmic on the TCR race car. They just call it an intercooler that sits laterally above the front axle.

 

[StorableComa]

This thread is making me dig back into the ARM FMIC and ARM DP damn it. I could probably pick up both for a little more than the IE DP I was originally going to buy and save the cash on the BMS direct replacement IC.

 

[Keehs360]

This thread is making me dig back into the ARM FMIC and ARM DP damn it. I could probably pick up both for a little more than the IE DP I was originally going to buy and save the cash on the BMS direct replacement IC.

Didn’t know it existed. Fin density seems crazy

 

[StorableComa]

Didn’t know it existed. Fin density seems crazy

About a year ago it was the only "No mod required" OTS FMIC I could find that was bar and plate and not super pricey. They advertise it'll install with no trimming on the GSW, where is ECS and others require slight trimming or other work to get to fit if I recall correctly from my research then.

Was going to go IE DP, or 034 draft as they use a 300 and 400 cell high flow cat respectively. Arm is 200 cell, but the savings is hard to turn a blind eye too when comparing the three.

Arm Specs from mygolfmk7 - Yes I know we don't really like the guy, but at least his stated specs seem legit as far as I know:

FMIC

22 Length

9Height

3.25depth

198 Frontal area in^2

644 Core volume In^3

13 Fin/in

Seems pretty good, and ARM claims it'll work up to 574HP applications. I plan IS20 with pump gas 91, and maybe flex/ e-85 as my end build. Don't want to stress the 09G and i've seen a couple IS20 swaps running around in the wild already.

 

[Keehs360]

About a year ago it was the only "No mod required" OTS FMIC I could find that was bar and plate and not super pricey. They advertise it'll install with no trimming on the GSW, where is ECS and others require slight trimming or other work to get to fit if I recall correctly from my research then.

Was going to go IE DP, or 034 draft as they use a 300 and 400 cell high flow cat respectively. Arm is 200 cell, but the savings is hard to turn a blind eye too when comparing the three.

Arm Specs from mygolfmk7 - Yes I know we don't really like the guy, but at least his stated specs seem legit as far as I know:

FMIC

22 Length

9Height

3.25depth

198 Frontal area in^2

644 Core volume In^3

13 Fin/in

Seems pretty good, and ARM claims it'll work up to 574HP applications. I plan IS20 with pump gas 91, and maybe flex/ e-85 as my end build. Don't want to stress the 09G and i've seen a couple IS20 swaps running around in the wild already.

I doubt the hp claim if that frontal area was larger with.... no no even then. No way.

 

[StorableComa]

I doubt the hp claim if that frontal area was larger with.... no no even then. No way.

Hmm. It looks to be one of the bigger FMICs with frontal area. He states Baun/JD Euro Vibrants are 661 Frontal area in inches squared. Granted I don't know when he last updated any of this info: Edit: Looking at Core volume. Frontal is 198 vs 204 inches squared. Core is inches cubed.

 

[Keehs360]

Hmm. It looks to be one of the bigger FMICs with frontal area. He states Baun/JD Euro Vibrants are 661 Frontal area in inches squared. Granted I don't know when he last updated any of this info: Edit: Looking at Core volume. Frontal is 198 vs 204 inches squared. Core is inches cubed.
View attachment 204716

Man that’s dense. I’m gonna guess this thing takes a long time to warm up. On an is20 stage 1 u can probably run 3-4 pulls back to back before it gets too warm. Then it’s gonna take a while of driving at part throttle to get those temps to go back down.

just my educated guess.

edit looking at the dimensions. That thing isn’t gonna support 500hp

 

[StorableComa]

Man that’s dense. I’m gonna guess this thing takes a long time to warm up. On an is20 stage 1 u can probably run 3-4 pulls back to back before it gets too warm. Then it’s gonna take a while of driving at part throttle to get those temps to go back down.

just my educated guess.

edit looking at the dimensions. That thing isn’t gonna support 500hp

Should be enough for what I have planned. If I end up grenading the tranny and looking into a 6spd manual swap I may look IS38+.

Anything is better than the stock 1.8T IC, that thing is pretty crap from looking at some of my 3rd gear pull logs.

 

[Keehs360]

Should be enough for what I have planned. If I end up grenading the tranny and looking into a 6spd manual swap I may look IS38+.

Anything is better than the stock 1.8T IC, that thing is pretty crap from looking at some of my 3rd gear pull logs.

Oh man the arm is definitely an upgrade. No doubt about that. I’m personally going with a baun. But even that’s overkill for the street. But at the road course, it should hold its own well