AMS Intercooler

[Hoon]

I've been waiting until i had an apples to apples comparison to post this, but i now feel i have sufficient data.

When i built the motor i switched from the Unitronic intercooler to AMS. The only other change that can affect airflow was going from a 3" DP with a 100 cell race cat, to a 4" catless. You can imagine i was surprised to see that the car was failing to meet boost targets with the wastegate mapping from the stock motor.

In very similar environmental conditions, the Vortex XL now takes 8% more wastegate to hold the same 35psi boost as before. Clearly i didn't lose exhaust flow, so i had to look at the IC.

The IATs are better with the AMS than Uni, but my data shows i have to drive the turbo harder to make the same PSI. A quick trip over to Mygolfmk7.com shows Jeffs test results mirror what i'm seeing in the real world. At 28" H20 (Negative 1 psi) the Uni flows 229 CFM and the AMS flows 199. Based on the output of the car, it's moving 750-800cfm, meaning i have at least a few PSI pressure drop across the IC.

I'm only getting about 15 degrees above ambient after a 40-140 pull, so its cooling well, but there are options that cool as well without the restriction.

Jeffs data:

http://mygolfmk7.com/2020/06/ams-performance-intercooler-flow-test/

 

[Jovian]

I noticed this also but interpenetrated it a different way. I looked at targeted vs actual boost and they seemed to be in line. I took this as the boost system is not working as hard to meet the torque requirements of the engine sooner. I mention it at the bottom paragraph.

https://www.carworklog.com/2020/07/17/mk7-intercoolers-ams-intercooler-upgrade/

 

[Hoon]

I noticed this also but interpenetrated it a different way. I looked at targeted vs actual boost and they seemed to be in line. I took this as the boost system is not working as hard to meet the torque requirements of the engine sooner. I mention it at the bottom paragraph.

https://www.carworklog.com/2020/07/17/mk7-intercoolers-ams-intercooler-upgrade/

You're misunderstanding my data. I'm not using a TQ target, I'm telling the car to make 35psi boost. It''ll still make the same 35psi it used to, but it's taking 8% more wastegate than it used to (which is significant), and i upgraded the exhaust. That means something else in the system is more restrictive than it used to be. The only other change to the turbo system is the change from Unitronic to AMS.

It missed that target initially because it was following my wastegate setpoint table (to a degree, it has a PID controller) which was set for the previous setup, not because it met a TQ target.

Jeff's data is consistent with mine, it's just not a good flowing IC.

Edit: In your case, its meeting TQ target at lower boost because the IATs are better. There is no airflow difference between AMS and stock, so that was not a factor when you upgraded. My case is different.

 

[PowerDemon]

The BT guys need to make a fund so you can try all the different Mk7 ICs and report back. I for one would love to see you test the APR IC on the same tune/conditions. Great post.

 

[Diggs24]

Same ambient? I see a not insignificant variance depending on ambient temp.

 

[Diggs24]

I also think the trade off is fair. The turbo can take it.

 

[Hoon]

The BT guys need to make a fund so you can try all the different Mk7 ICs and report back. I for one would love to see you test the APR IC on the same tune/conditions. Great post.

APR is definitely one of the best choices.

Same ambient? I see a not insignificant variance depending on ambient temp.

Yep, that's why i was waiting to draw a final conclusion. Did some 35psi tuning today in very similar conditions to previous...actually a bit better air today. Still took noticeably more gate...a couple PSI worth.

I also think the trade off is fair. The turbo can take it.

I agree, but for what the AMS costs there are other options that give you the same cooling without the loss in flow. I'm not saying the AMS is bad, but i am saying the market has better.

I'm going to do a dyno pull without the intake. I feel i might be at the limit of the VWR600 also. 1 PSI of restriction in the intake is equivalent to 2000DA.

 

[Diggs24]

Very interested in that dyno.

 

[Hollywood0220]

I think what one would need for the bigger turbo/high boost set-up are larger inlet & oulet; that would alleviate flow.
The AMS is quite the cooling solution for the majority. Good test running that sucker with 35psi

 

[Hoon]

Very interested in that dyno.

Spun my ass off on Indy 500's (tire situation is a long story, these are temporary...was still spinning at 7300rpm in 3rd when I shifted) and went 7.74 60-130 on flat ground @ 34psi. Would have easily gone 7.5x on the Pilot 4s and better than that on a stickier tire.

Cars making some steam. It's going to put down a solid number.

 

[Hoon]

I think what one would need for the bigger turbo/high boost set-up are larger inlet & oulet; that would alleviate flow.
The AMS is quite the cooling solution for the majority. Good test running that sucker with 35psi

There is one option (the do888 intercooler) that flows 34% more than the AMS with the same size inlet and outlet, so I believe it's the core.

I haven't seen any meaningful cooling data on the do888 though.

 

[ChrisMk77]

There is one option (the do888 intercooler) that flows 34% more than the AMS with the same size inlet and outlet, so I believe it's the core.

I haven't seen any meaningful cooling data on the do888 though.

There is an Hawaiian guy in the EQT group that runs one with an XL over 30 psi that loves it and has posted good logs, think it was him that said it also improved his spool by a few 100 rpms.

 

[Hollywood0220]

You are still making incredible power though with the AMS.
VE only goes so far right? When opening the push from using a 4” DP (catless), is the throttle plate allowing that much flow that soon?
Although the reported flow of the Do88 is greater wouldn’t come close to the cooling effect of the AMS.

 

[Ezekiel81923]

The do88 cools better than the AMS. At least in "testing." But someone running 30+ PSI on a vortex XL also provided logs of their do88 doing just fine. Combined with better flow / less pressure drop, what more could you want?

I'm sure I'll take some heat for this, but...I know AMS does a lot of great things and has quite a history I just think it's stock replacement intercooler is a bit overhyped on our platform. Other intercoolers flow better and cool better, and at better price points.

At the power levels most of us see, it may not matter. But if it doesn't matter, why drop $900 on an AMS in the first place?

 

[Diggs24]

I haven't seen any meaningful cooling data on the do888 though.

http://mygolfmk7.com/2020/08/street-battle-do88-vs-ie/