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Blow-by/PCV/Lots of Smoke. Need Solid Answers

RoccoB517

Passed Driver's Ed
So after a couple of weeks of scouring the internet for info for the 2.0 TSI and a trip to the VW dealership I decided to start a thread to get to the bottom of this problem.

I recently installed my downpipe and upgraded to the APR Stage 2 tune. Five days after the upgrade I went to an Autocross event, and experienced MASSIVE amounts of white smoke pouring out of my exhaust at launch and during hard cornering. My first thought was a head gasket or oil leaking into the turbo. What I found odd was that during the week, and 500 miles, that I drove the car after the upgrade I had no smoke issues at all. It only happened when the car was being pushed hard. I drove for 3 more runs and the smoke gradually decreased in volume, but didn't go away completely. Please note that the oil was not overfilled (thought of that too). The next day I pulled the line going from the PCV to the manifold, and the line going from the PCV to the intake tubing. The manifold line had about a thimble of oil in it, and the intake line had more. I immediately took the car to the VW dealership and they told me they checked the system. They found nothing wrong, including the PCV working properly, and said that this type of blow-by is normal in the TSI when driven hard.

I've been to 2 more driving events since the visit to the dealer, and continue to have smoke issues under hard cornering and launch. I also clean the intake tubing and PCV to Manifold line before every event. There are consistent amounts of oil collected in both after each event, and 8-10 minutes of hard AutoX runs yields a 1/4 quart of oil lost.

I'm unhappy with this result, and it concerns me during track time when I reach even higher G's. Another thing to note is that I drove the car just as hard at Stage 1, but with no smoke. I'm thinking the double cats, plus the baffles in the muffler were doing a lot to filter it out.

Has anyone else experienced this, have ideas, insights, thoughts on how to completely solve this problem? Below is a list of my mods, so you can see what I'm working with.

P-Flo CAI, RAI catted downpipe, GHL catback, APR Stage 2 tune, running Dunlop Star Specs on the street, and R-compound tires at the track/autoX. Suspension mods abound.

Thanks ahead of time for any input.
 

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie
the R compounds are not helping, I'm sure.

Well, APR sells that thing now for $1300......
 

RoccoB517

Passed Driver's Ed
Yeah, but for $1300 I could buy a shitty Miata and just beat the piss out of that instead. :)


Also, I forgot to mention that I'm not sold on the catch can idea, because I feel that I will continue to cycle through the same amount of oil (and probably more if I replace the PCV with an Africa plate). I think I'll fill the damn can in 20 minutes of driving.
 

Erwan1

Go Kart Champion
the R compounds are not helping, I'm sure.

Well, APR sells that thing now for $1300......

Which won't prevent this, it should prevent oil starvation while it is happening tho....

Weird a couple people have seen this also, not sure what causes it, APR seems to. They are apparently working on something to fix this issue.

I would call them and ask them about it, see what the root cause is.
 

Gunkata

Drag Race Newbie
When I had my 996, I had a baffled oil pan put in (cost about $600 with a local P-Car specialist) and ran a low amount of oil (need to be careful) and it basically got rid of the blow-by I had except for one turn on a track. I later ditched it, cos it was out of warranty and I still wanted to track it.
 

Erwan1

Go Kart Champion
From this thread: http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34394&highlight=oil+blow&


PandaGTI said:
I think the problem is that with high G turns, all the oil gets picked sloshed to one side of the engine, gets picked up by the PCV like a vacuum, and shoots it into the intake track, through the cylinders, and out the exhaust. A catch can just catches this extra oil and keeps it in the catch can... still leading to an oil starved engine

That may be correct, I really don't know. If that's the case I have no idea what you can do. I've personally never experienced this.
 

XGC75

Go Kart Champion
I have this problem as well. I buy a new filter for the boost line after every track event because it's tapped into the intake manifold pcv line.

It's concerning, but you have to imagine the engineers knew about this while designing the engine. I know I can clean out the intake ducts and valves, but what about the turbo? I mean the thing operates at upwards of 500F off the track, but that wouldn't prevent carbon buildup on the inside of the compressor housing or, worse, the blades of the compressor wheel.

butchered by autocorrect
 

RoccoB517

Passed Driver's Ed
Well, I called APR and the tech provided no help. He said they have never heard of this problem, and smoking is all part of a direct injected turbo engine. Basically the same verdict as the dealership.

I'm convinced that it has to be the volume of oil going into the turbo and manifold from blow-by. I think it's correct to assume that during high-G cornering the oil sloshes to one side of the motor and is drawn into the PCV. After doing some more testing I've noticed that the smoke at launch is worse after the car has sat for longer between a hard run and launch. It seems like there is a coating of oil sent to the intake tubing and turbo during the hard driving, then that settles into the turbo while the car sits, then it is blown into the exhaust in volume on launch.

Since APR and Volkswagen have no information, does anyone else have an idea how to solve this issue?

Some of my thoughts are:

--Catch Can, even though the can will fill quickly with the volume of oil picked up.

--Change in oil viscosity for track days so it is "heavier" and more easily separated from air.

--Higher end in-line air/oil separators between both the PCV and manifold, and between the PCV and intake tubing.

--Running a slash cut or dump tube system. I think the slash cut will make the smoking worse because all of the oil currently created by blow-by would still be dumped into the exhaust, but you would be adding the volume from the manifold side. I doubt the dump tube option would not pass tech at most tracks.


The oil starvation problem is a whole different issue, and I can't really spend $1300 on a sump system. I would address this by overfilling slightly, but that would only make the smoke issue worse.

Like XGC75, I fear for the health of my turbo and valves.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
If they truly tested your pcv system and it's working normally, I would block off the front port and run a dump tube from the rear to a 1" breather filter. You may have to put it back to stock for local emissions, but this has been my fix for the oil in the intake. Only vapor comes out of this thing...


 

xHeartcoreboyx

IceCream GTI
Any idea what is the hose diameter?

If they truly tested your pcv system and it's working normally, I would block off the front port and run a dump tube from the rear to a 1" breather filter. You may have to put it back to stock for local emissions, but this has been my fix for the oil in the intake. Only vapor comes out of this thing...


 

RoccoB517

Passed Driver's Ed
Two questions about the VTA set-up.

How fast does the oil destroy the filter?

Do you have an issue with no vacuum to pull the gasses from the crankcase?

This is a viable option for me if it works, since I'm not concerned about inspection, and it would not be dumping oil all over the undercarriage of my car.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
The filter is fine, been about 20k since I put it on. It's a breather filter designed for exactly what I'm doing. K&N. Vacuum is not an issue, or required. What I found for a tight fit was a heater hose from a late model Maxima. I believe it's just under 1".
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
The filter is fine, been about 20k since I put it on. It's a breather filter designed for exactly what I'm doing. K&N. Vacuum is not an issue, or required. What I found for a tight fit was a heater hose from a late model Maxima. I believe it's just under 1".

What connectors/metal pieces did you use to block the ports???
How about the filter number? and mor info about the hose?
 

rmetanes

Passed Driver's Ed
I need yoyur help, @zrickety
I suspect my PCV if faulty.
I was told that to check it, while the car is on idle, I should pull oil dipstick.
Witht eh dipstick out, car should idle roughly, if there's no change meaning the PCV is faulty.
Well, in my car when I pull the dipstick there's no change.
I'm thinking of following your procedure and block off the front port and run a dump tube.
But you wrote "If they truly tested your pcv system and it's working normally".
1. Can't this be done if the PCV system is not working propely?
2. in the images you posted, I can see you blocked the intake manifold's port. and PCV port.
where did yo connect the KN filter too?




If they truly tested your pcv system and it's working normally, I would block off the front port and run a dump tube from the rear to a 1" breather filter. You may have to put it back to stock for local emissions, but this has been my fix for the oil in the intake. Only vapor comes out of this thing...
 
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