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Clutch Issue Mk6 GTI Clutchmasters FX-350

RudolphTheRedNosedGTI

Ready to race!
I'm at my wits end. This clutch will be the death of me. ECS bleeder block, flushed and bled fluid, and still this damn engagement issue.

When im in a high rpm range and am shifting from WOT, to clutch in, change gear, clutch out, back to WOT, The pedal comes all the way back up, the clutch grabs, but it takes 4-5 sec for the power to actually transfer. During that time the revs just stay put. Don't decline, don't increase. The car doesn't accelerate, it stays at its same speed. It only happens when I'm going back to WOT after a shift, and happened within a range of 3k and 5k RPM, usually as im upshifting (2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, 4th to 5th). It varies what change sequence it happens in, and it happens so sparatically at such high RPM that I have not been able to recreate it when I'm at a shop or have a camera rolling. But it always does it when I'm not filming of course. I will be taking the car to the track, so having to wait 5 seconds for 1 out of 4 shifts is not acceptable.

Its either the clutch is slipping (which this is a characteristic I've never heard of for clutch slip), or the fluid is not returning fast enough to the clutch. That would mean either my throw out bearing or my master cylinder is out. The throwout bearing was brand new with the clutch, and it did this on the old stock clutch as well. So that would lead me to believe clutch master cylinder. But, this symptom is not one of master cylinder failure, nor is it of throw out bearing failure. Pedal still comes back up, fluid isnt leaking as far as I can tell.

I don't know what else to do but blindly replace parts that may still be fine. If anyone has any ideas, please help.

Car is a 2013 GTI APR Stage 2. Clutch is a Clutchmasters FX-350 on a brand new OEM dual mass flywheel. This symptom was with both OEM clutch and the new clutch. I don't know what else could be the issue.

Since I can't seem to get it on camera I can do my best to re-enact it. Off gas, clutch in, shift into gear, clutch off, noticeable feel of clutch grabbing, on gas, revs hold at RPM for that gear, revs hold still at that RPM for 4-5 seconds with gas down, feel a noticeable surge in power actually being transfered, slowly begin to accelerate.
 
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NLeo

Ready to race!
Did you break the clutch in? It seems like the clutch is slipping but its hard to tell without a video. If you didnt break the clutch in properly that explains why its slipping.
 

RudolphTheRedNosedGTI

Ready to race!
Did you break the clutch in? It seems like the clutch is slipping but its hard to tell without a video. If you didnt break the clutch in properly that explains why its slipping.

Broke it in with city and freeway driving for 1k miles. The only reason I dont think it is clutch slip per say is that i can distinctly feel the clutch grab, and if it were slipping, then the revs would keep rising and I wouldnt accelerate. But the revs just stay put, and wont increase and the car wont accelerate until i wait 4-5 seconds for it to "engage" fully.
 

greasyginzo

Go Kart Champion
Its not the clutch it is the ECU. It is supposedly some kind of clutch protection. If you let up on the gas and reapply it will go again. Shifting on the floor is a way around the problem. It sucks and is very fuckin annoying.
 

FL_GTI

Ready to race!
Found a thread that seems to mention something that sounds a lot like my symptom. They call it a fuel cut.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5022648-3rd-Gear-Fuel-Cut-Out-Issue



Its not the clutch it is the ECU. It is supposedly some kind of clutch protection. If you let up on the gas and reapply it will go again. Shifting on the floor is a way around the problem. It sucks and is very fuckin annoying.


We've been dealing with this since the gen 1 EA888 was introduced. It is a software protection mechanism and is a massively unfortunate component of the MK6's driving characteristic.
 

Cryptic19111

Go Kart Champion
^ Yup, It's apparently a "protection" of some sort in the ecu that has been there since day one. I think I was the first one to report it back in 08/09 with a mkv tsi, but still nobody has tuned it out. APR kept claiming they couldn't reproduce it, then years later they finally came out and said they knew what it was, but they couldn't say anything because they didn't want any of their competitors to know about it and fix it.. but they still haven't fixed it on their own tunes. Even now when people complain about it, they seem to play dumb about it like they've never run across it before. Basically, it ain't gonna get fixed.

Really the only solution to it is to flat shift it or get a WOT box. If they would at least update their tunes with no lift shift capabilities, it would go away

In the logs that I caught in 08/09, you can see the TPS is 100%, and the throttle plate is at like 20%, hangs hangs hangs, then ramps up slowly to 100% when I kept my foot in it. If you pedal it real quick, it responds like nothing happened
 

Cryptic19111

Go Kart Champion
Oh, and I've had it on all stages of tune / mods.. stage1, stage2, k04 v3 and v3.1. That was with different intakes, downpipes, exhausts, turbos, clutches, and the water meth.. It did seem slightly better with the water meth, but never went away completely
 

RudolphTheRedNosedGTI

Ready to race!
^ Yup, It's apparently a "protection" of some sort in the ecu that has been there since day one. I think I was the first one to report it back in 08/09 with a mkv tsi, but still nobody has tuned it out. APR kept claiming they couldn't reproduce it, then years later they finally came out and said they knew what it was, but they couldn't say anything because they didn't want any of their competitors to know about it and fix it.. but they still haven't fixed it on their own tunes. Even now when people complain about it, they seem to play dumb about it like they've never run across it before. Basically, it ain't gonna get fixed.

Really the only solution to it is to flat shift it or get a WOT box. If they would at least update their tunes with no lift shift capabilities, it would go away

In the logs that I caught in 08/09, you can see the TPS is 100%, and the throttle plate is at like 20%, hangs hangs hangs, then ramps up slowly to 100% when I kept my foot in it. If you pedal it real quick, it responds like nothing happened


Arin@APR on his Instagram and in various threads has leaked they're updating the Mk6 GTI tune in the first quarter of 2016, and adding the same No Lift Shift and Launch control functions like they did on the Mk6 R. Supposedly a power bump for the stage 1 & 2 files as well.

Im calling APR today just to see what they have to say about the fuel cut.
 

greasyginzo

Go Kart Champion
Arin@APR on his Instagram and in various threads has leaked they're updating the Mk6 GTI tune in the first quarter of 2016, and adding the same No Lift Shift and Launch control functions like they did on the Mk6 R. Supposedly a power bump for the stage 1 & 2 files as well.

Im calling APR today just to see what they have to say about the fuel cut.

Its not fuel cut the throttle plate is closing
 

Cryptic19111

Go Kart Champion
Its not fuel cut the throttle plate is closing

I've told this guy that about 20 times both on here and facebook and for some reason he doesn't get it. It's been a tune issue since 2009-10. It's nothing new around here.

Here is my log from 2009-ish, back when I was stage2. Pink is the Throttle position sensor (to the floor / 100%), and yellow is the Throttle plate position:



If you let out and get back into it, it's fine. If you just keep your foot planted, the above is what happens. It ramped back up to 100% over like 5 seconds
 
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