Clutch Upgrade for a Stock 2010 GTI Possibly Upgrading to APR Stage 1

[PghDan]

Hi Everyone,

As the title suggests, I'm hoping for some feedback from forum members that have upgraded their clutch on a Mk 6 GTI in order to support APR Stage 1, or any Stage 1 tune with no additional mods. Recently my rear main seal started leaking and will need to be replaced, so right now is as good a time as any to upgrade my clutch incase I decide to finally pull the trigger on my long coveted APR Stage 1 tune.

My dilemma is that I am fairly certain that I do not want to switch to a single mass flywheel, which seems to severely limit my options. Too much city driving, stop-and-go bumper-to-bumper traffic for me to have to live with any increased gear chatter, vibrations and overall increase to NVH that occurs when switching to a SMFW. Sure the benefits of a SMFW sound nice - like freeing up some power due to the lightness when compared to the stock DMFW, quicker revs, etc. - but for me personally I suspect that any pros will be vastly outweighed by the cons.

Ultimately, my picture perfect setup for a comfortable but "stock+" feel would:

1. Retain the stock dual mass flywheel
2. Use a mildly stronger than stock dampened clutch disk OR mildly stronger dampened clutch disk + stronger pressure plate
3. Not cost an arm and a leg

That last point is especially important, considering that money is tight (but when is it not?) and I already need to pay for a new rear main seal + possibly labor for someone else to install it.

The problem is that most of the clutch kits I'm finding seem to use a rigid clutch disk, which to me seems like a downgrade considering that the stock clutch disk is dampened, albeit using very small springs. For example, on ECS Tuning:

1. Clutch Masters Stage 1 Clutch Kit (FX100): Compatible with stock DMFW, but uses a rigid clutch disk.
2. Sachs Performance Clutch Kit: Compatible with stock DMFW, but uses a rigid clutch disk.
3. Clutch Masters Stage 2 Clutch Kit (FX250): Compatible with stock DMFW, but uses a rigid clutch disk
4. Clutch Masers Stage 3 Clutch Kit (FX350): Compatible with stock DMFW, but uses a rigid clutch disk + seems like overkill for only modding to a Stage 1 tune
5. Clutch Masters Stage 4 Clutch Kit (FX400): Compatible with stock DMFW, but uses a rigid clutch disk + seems like overkill for only modding to a Stage 1 tune
6. South Bend Drop-In Clutch Disc (SDTSI-OFE): Compatible with stock DMFW and stock pressure plate, but uses a rigid disk

All of the clutch kits that I can find that use a dampened clutch disk (Clutch Masters, South Bend, DKM, Sachs) note that they require the use of a SMFW. Ugh! Why?!

Am I overlooking something? How is it possible that the aftermarket doesn't have a mildly upgraded version of the stock, dampened clutch disk? Is there a dampened clutch disk from elsewhere in the VAG family that would fit my needs, such as something from a Golf R, Beetle, or Audi TT?

If what I'm looking for doesn't exist, then sadly I think I would prefer to just keep my car 100% stock and never upgrade the clutch or get an APR tune, rather than ever have to live with increased noise or gear chatter from a single mass flywheel.

I can't really afford to get this wrong; this is a huge, highly questionable investment in a car that (while in amazing condition better than most cars with half the mileage) is still a 10 year old car with 134,000 miles, and a declining Blue Book value. If I decide to upgrade the clutch, or cave-in and decide to take a chance on a "heavy" version of a SMFW kit, and hate the results, then I'll be left with a car that I won't enjoy driving which would just depress me because I've loved driving and owning this car for the past 3 1/2 years. Plus, if I hate the results of my clutch upgrade, the insult to injury will be that I paid a lot of money for a worse experience that I won't be able to afford to un-do.

 

[GolNat]

RSR DIY clutch kit

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/index.php?threads/build-your-own-rsr-clutch-kit-parts-list.273966/
I am in the process of installing this at the moment.

 

[PghDan]

RSR DIY clutch kit

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/index.php?threads/build-your-own-rsr-clutch-kit-parts-list.273966/
I am in the process of installing this at the moment.

Let us know how you like it! On paper this sounds like what I'm looking for, but I will need to decide if it fits within my budget.

 

[AM407]

Just FYI, I’ve been Unitronic Stage 1 on my GTI for a few years now and the stock clutch is fine. 2010 GTI as well, but only 100,000 miles.

But yeah, I understand why you’d want to change it while you’ve got it apart for the RMS anyway.

 

[GolNat]

Yeah I’ll let you know how it is. I pieced together all the parts with a new DMFW for around $1100.

Also for the RMS it’s best to get the iABED billet one over an OEM one. It’s a very nice piece for $120.

I went 12k miles Uni Stage 1+ and my clutch started to occasionally slip toward the end. I wasn’t sure what I was feeling but once I went Stage 2 it was slipping like crazy and I basically now can’t give it more then half throttle in gears 4,5 and 6. Full throttle high gear pulls seem to be what kills the clutch.

 

[torga]

Rigid aftermarket disks are generally used with a DMFW because the DMFW will do the damping. Almost every non-track SMFW kit will have a damped disk since the SMFW won't do any damping.

I'm putting together the RSR kit myself; I don't want to deal with a SMFW in heavy traffic. Plus, the A4 Quattro disk that gets used in the RSR kit, happens to be damped. I'm pretty sure this is the only way to get what you'e looking for. An RSR kit will hold K04 power.

 

[Tony48]

Given your mileage you should absolutely be replacing the clutch while you do the rear main seal if you plan on keeping the car for any decent period of time.

RSR clutch will be perfect for you. You can piece it together yourself using the link GolNat posted or buy it from the guys that did the original R&D to bring it to market, HS Tuning. I have personally received very good service from HS Tuning on non-clutch related matters.

I have some info on RSR clutch components, install, and my impressions in the link in my signature.

 

[PghDan]

Just FYI, I’ve been Unitronic Stage 1 on my GTI for a few years now and the stock clutch is fine. 2010 GTI as well, but only 100,000 miles.

But yeah, I understand why you’d want to change it while you’ve got it apart for the RMS anyway.

That's good to hear that your stock clutch has held up so long. One of the possibilities I'm considering is just sticking with a stock clutch kit but I've heard conflicting reports about how well the stock clutch components hold up to Stage 1 power. In most cases that seems to have more to do with high mileage components or constant abuse though. My budget may end up forcing me to stick with stock components, but since I'm not the type to launch my car often and don't track or autocross it, I think I may be okay.

Yeah I’ll let you know how it is. I pieced together all the parts with a new DMFW for around $1100.

Also for the RMS it’s best to get the iABED billet one over an OEM one. It’s a very nice piece for $120.

I went 12k miles Uni Stage 1+ and my clutch started to occasionally slip toward the end. I wasn’t sure what I was feeling but once I went Stage 2 it was slipping like crazy and I basically now can’t give it more then half throttle in gears 4,5 and 6. Full throttle high gear pulls seem to be what kills the clutch.

Due to a lack of a proper work space I may need to have a shop do the job for me, and the ones locally that I've checked with seem to have no experience with the iAbed rear main, but have installed plenty of the upgraded "Version B" VW rear main seals with great results, or so they say. My preference is the iAbed unit, but if I need to have a shop do this for me I may need to defer to what they're comfortable or familiar with.

Also, when you went Uni Stage 1 how many miles were on your car? While my car has 134,000 miles, I truly don't know how many miles are on the clutch. I'm curious if yours was slipping under Stage 1 just due to your clutch already being somewhat higher mileage?

Rigid aftermarket disks are generally used with a DMFW because the DMFW will do the damping. Almost every non-track SMFW kit will have a damped disk since the SMFW won't do any damping.

I'm putting together the RSR kit myself; I don't want to deal with a SMFW in heavy traffic. Plus, the A4 Quattro disk that gets used in the RSR kit, happens to be damped. I'm pretty sure this is the only way to get what you'e looking for. An RSR kit will hold K04 power.

My logic is that, VW used both a dampened disk and a DMFW from the factory, so I want to retain as much of that as possible. My car has lasted for 134,000, with very few problems, for a reason. I firmly believe that a well balanced and dampened drivetrain has helped my car last so long, so I don't want to re-invent the wheel. Plus, I definitely don't want to deal with a SMFW in the traffic I face regularly.

There was a thread on here somewhere, where HS Tuning recommended against using a rigid disk with the stock DMFW, because that can lead to premature failure of the DMFW due to the clutch disk being unable to dampen anything and forcing the DMFW to do all the dampening for the drivetrain.

Given your mileage you should absolutely be replacing the clutch while you do the rear main seal if you plan on keeping the car for any decent period of time.

RSR clutch will be perfect for you. You can piece it together yourself using the link GolNat posted or buy it from the guys that did the original R&D to bring it to market, HS Tuning. I have personally received very good service from HS Tuning on non-clutch related matters.

I have some info on RSR clutch components, install, and my impressions in the link in my signature.

Awesome, I'll check out your impressions! This sounds like the perfect setup for me, but $1,100 may be too much for me right now. Worst case scenario, I may need to stick with stock components and just "be an adult" about driving my car with a Stage 1 tune.

 

[torga]

My logic is that, VW used both a dampened disk and a DMFW from the factory, so I want to retain as much of that as possible. My car has lasted for 134,000, with very few problems, for a reason. I firmly believe that a well balanced and dampened drivetrain has helped my car last so long, so I don't want to re-invent the wheel. Plus, I definitely don't want to deal with a SMFW in the traffic I face regularly.

There was a thread on here somewhere, where HS Tuning recommended against using a rigid disk with the stock DMFW, because that can lead to premature failure of the DMFW due to the clutch disk being unable to dampen anything and forcing the DMFW to do all the dampening for the drivetrain.

I understand that reasoning, but let's not forget all the plastic bits that hold hot coolant that inevitably crack from heat cycling. Granted, a good engineer would've never made that decision - things like that generally fall to the bean counters who are trying to squeeze as much profit out of a product. Anyway, my point is, not everything that comes from the factory is engineered for ultimate reliability - there is always a cost compromise made.

 

[dcpppf]

I did sachs SRE clutch back in 2013. No issues 7 years (but only 50,000 miles or so) later.

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/index.php?threads/sachs-sre-clutch-and-pp.261918/

 

[GolNat]

Also, when you went Uni Stage 1 how many miles were on your car? While my car has 134,000 miles, I truly don't know how many miles are on the clutch. I'm curious if yours was slipping under Stage 1 just due to your clutch already being somewhat higher mileage?.

My car had 37k miles on it so it was still pretty new. I would definitely worry about yours with that many miles. Low gear full throttle pulls seem to not wear it as fast as high gear pulls.

 

[PghDan]

I understand that reasoning, but let's not forget all the plastic bits that hold hot coolant that inevitably crack from heat cycling. Granted, a good engineer would've never made that decision - things like that generally fall to the bean counters who are trying to squeeze as much profit out of a product. Anyway, my point is, not everything that comes from the factory is engineered for ultimate reliability - there is always a cost compromise made.

Oh, believe me, I know plenty about some of the ways the engineers and/or the accounting department left weak parts on our cars as a "cost compromise". See: Version A rear main seal, plastic gears in the throttle body, PCV valve, etc.

My point was less to do with the specific materials used, and more to do with the concept that they dampened BOTH the clutch disk and flywheel from the factory, which I think is a great idea and is largely why the clutch in our cars is so effortless. Maybe too effortless lol.

With my car being high mileage, I don't want to risk the increased vibration from switching to a SMFW won't cause issues somewhere else due to largely high mileage components.

Plus, I agree with HS Tuning and the theory that a rigid clutch disk puts more pressure on the DMFW (which in turn can lead to premature failure of the DMFW), because that part was designed to be used, and come from the factory, with a dampened clutch disk. That's all I meant.

I did sachs SRE clutch back in 2013. No issues 7 years (but only 50,000 miles or so) later.

https://www.golfmk6.com/forums/index.php?threads/sachs-sre-clutch-and-pp.261918/

I considered this clutch disk and PP, but was initially turned off by it being a rigid disk. When you say "no issues" are you referring specifically to no increased chatter, or gear noise? When at low RPM's, or starting out in first gear, do you hear anything like that? I'm sure it's fine when you're cruising.

 

[dcpppf]

I have no noises/chatter that are clutch related. My idle noises stem from rigid mounts lol

 

[PghDan]

After getting a few repair quotes from nearby dealerships and independent shops, I've decided that labor costs for replacing the rear main seal + replacing the clutch are too high, so I will be doing the job at home with the help of a relative. My car is perfectly fine and can be safely driven for now; the Rear Main is a very slow leak that, while enough to "mark its spot" when I park it anywhere, is not enough of a leak to cause the oil level on my dipstick to drop in over a month. My plan is to wait a few more weeks until temperatures in Pittsburgh are at least a little more comfortable for working outside. In the meantime, I am putting together my parts list, hope to place my orders in the next week or two, and have actually become quite excited to do this job myself.

My clutch options have been narrowed down to a DIY RSR Kit, or the Sachs SRE clutch. Given that I'm at 134,000+ on the odometer and truly have no idea how old any of my clutch components are, I will be replacing the DMFW as well. My car still shifts great, but I assume it's not quite as smooth as it should be, so I'm excited to compare how the clutch feels before and after this job. I'm also interested to see how my clutch components look once they're removed, especially considering that they might possibly be factory original parts with 134,000 miles of use.

 

[GolNat]

I’ll update you on the RSR once’s it’s broken in. My initial 3 mike test drive was great though. No chatter, OEM engagement and probably 30% increase in pedal feel. I’ll have to go look for some traffic to help with the 500 mike break in.

Read, re- read and print off the DIY that is on the site. It’s a great resource. Check out Tony’s build thread for more great info too. Harbor Freight has the trans jack and engine bar. Amazon has some great triple square sets.

Oh and get a paint pen for marking bolts that are torqued and for ones that need the additional 90 degree turns. Also get lots of sandwich baggies to put nuts and bolts in. Someone on here told me about this trick too which was nice