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DSG Clamping Force

tsmack

Ready to race!
I have a K04 and in trying to decide which DSG tune to go with, I have seen that most tunes offer improvements in shift points, launch control, display options, auto up shifting in MM and so on. The one major variation seems to be whether or not clamping force of the clutch packs is occurring or not and to what degree. Some offer various stages of clamping force to hold the added torque output for bigger turbos.

The questions I have regarding this:

-While increasing clamping force will help prevent slippage, does that create more heat and wear on the rest of the transmission such as the mechtronic unit?

-At what point is the clamping force increase too much for the stock cooling system for the DSG?

-Is clamping force increase a preventative measure for clutch wear or should one wait to encounter slippage before moving to a DSG tune with extra clamping force?
 
I have a K04 and in trying to decide which DSG tune to go with, I have seen that most tunes offer improvements in shift points, launch control, display options, auto up shifting in MM and so on. The one major variation seems to be whether or not clamping force of the clutch packs is occurring or not and to what degree. Some offer various stages of clamping force to hold the added torque output for bigger turbos.

The questions I have regarding this:

-While increasing clamping force will help prevent slippage, does that create more heat and wear on the rest of the transmission such as the mechtronic unit?

-At what point is the clamping force increase too much for the stock cooling system for the DSG?

-Is clamping force increase a preventative measure for clutch wear or should one wait to encounter slippage before moving to a DSG tune with extra clamping force?



As far as I know only DM does it.. HPA also has a stage 3 which is also but it is insanely expensive and none of their dealer is actually able to tell you much about it..

To answer your question a slipping clutch will generate a lot more heat than the tune that prevents it...
 

tsmack

Ready to race!
So far HPA and UM I have validated increase pressure. APR does not and I am looking into GIAC and Uni.
 

tsmack

Ready to race!
I would agree that if you are having slippage the. It clearly makes sense to get a tune that increases clamping forces, but if you have no slippage???
 

steemax

Go Kart Champion
Uni Stage 2 does increase clamping pressure which is what I have on the car at the moment. Works very well and plays nice with other tunes. I've had it while on Eurodyne and Revo with no issues.
 

Arin@APR

GOLFMK7 Official Sponsor
If any tuner says they are increasing clamping pressure on your DQ250 Exx or Fxx transmission, ask for proof.
 

Bino

Go Kart Champion
If your slipping with your DSG you have other issues. I am DSG flashed by APR software and never had any slippage before or after. I know many local K04 DSG cars and none report any slipping.

Im thinking you are having other issues and a tune wont fix it.
 

RGTI13

Go Kart Champion
I have an HPA stage 3 tune and it's excellent. They are flexible with their prices and are somewhat customizable.

I had DSG slip in 5th gear as GT3071, never as K04 though; but all cars are different.

GIAC, HPA, Eurodyne and UM are the ones who increase clamping pressure. I have been in a Eurodyne DSG car, and GIAC DSG car and they are both rough on the streets. HPA is butter smooth and probably even smoother than OEM with increased pressure.

APR and UNI seems to be the only companies that doesn't increase clamping pressure. There are ways to trick the ECU and TCU via ECU and TCU software to not need it though... I know that's how Eurodyne gets around it.

I did A LOT of research on DSG software over the last three months.
 
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tsmack

Ready to race!
RGTI13, I have looked at HPA as well and their product looks good, but prices are pretty high, at least what they state on the website. How easy was it to get their tune? Wasn't sure if I would need to find a dealer or if they offer an easier solution.

UM seems like a good option as well. Talked to them for a while about their DSG tunes options. They also work with APR tuned cars to make a tune for your setup which is nice.

Uni is not close for me so I do not have them high on my list. GIAC is an option but a different shop than where I go.

I do not have any slipping at this point, but have read about many who have developed it and if I venture down the big turbo path it becomes even more important. The reality is that if I spend the money I would prefer to future proof now versus paying double later.
 

tsmack

Ready to race!
If any tuner says they are increasing clamping pressure on your DQ250 Exx or Fxx transmission, ask for proof.
Arin, I guess the fact that some like RGTI13 had slippage then, after a DSG tune that increases clamping pressure, the slippage goes away says something for this. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors?

Why is it APR does not do this, or is that what the stage III DSG tune is going to offer?
 
I have an HPA stage 3 tune and it's excellent. They are flexible with their prices and are somewhat customizable.

I had DSG slip in 5th gear as GT3071, never as K04 though; but all cars are different.

GIAC, HPA, UNI, Eurodyne and UM are the ones who increase clamping pressure. I have been in a Eurodyne DSG car, and GIAC DSG car and they are both rough on the streets. HPA is butter smooth and probably even smoother than OEM with increased pressure.

APR seems to be the only company that doesn't increase clamping pressure. There are ways to trick the ECU and TCU via ECU and TCU software to not need it though... I know that's how Eurodyne gets around it.

I did A LOT of research on DSG software over the last three months.

Well in your long research you forgot DM.. We have a golf R here with 604nm of tq and only a tune and it doesn't slip... I think Arin is right let's look at the proof!
 

RGTI13

Go Kart Champion
RGTI13, I have looked at HPA as well and their product looks good, but prices are pretty high, at least what they state on the website. How easy was it to get their tune? Wasn't sure if I would need to find a dealer or if they offer an easier solution.

UM seems like a good option as well. Talked to them for a while about their DSG tunes options. They also work with APR tuned cars to make a tune for your setup which is nice.

Uni is not close for me so I do not have them high on my list. GIAC is an option but a different shop than where I go.

I do not have any slipping at this point, but have read about many who have developed it and if I venture down the big turbo path it becomes even more important. The reality is that if I spend the money I would prefer to future proof now versus paying double later.
I have had a great experience with HPA. The around trip expedited shipping of their DSG flash tool is also including in the cost and that is NOT CHEAP factoring in customs.

They will ship the tool to you, where you then read your software and email it to them. The next day they will return the email with your flash where you can then proceed to flash the car yourself. It was super simple.

They also made a few edits for me as I went and tested the car and wanted a few changes.

Call HPA and say RJ with the GTI sent you. Least you can do is check pricing and ask questions.
 

RGTI13

Go Kart Champion
Well in your long research you forgot DM.. We have a golf R here with 604nm of tq and only a tune and it doesn't slip... I think Arin is right let's look at the proof!
Whoops! I actually emailed DM - they took too log to respond so I scrapped them. They are only two hours away too. Shows a lot when I chose a Canadian company over a company that is located two hours away.

DM does increase clamping pressure but they don't like responding to emails.
 

RGTI13

Go Kart Champion
I think I should mention that I actually drove up to Tampa (2 hours) to get my car DSG flashed with GIAC.

They could not get the tune to flash correctly. So it was scrapped.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
I run a Unitronics Stage 3 DSG flash and it does NOT increase clamping force. I called and confirmed this with their tech support. Raising torque limit is different than increasing the clamping force. I am currently waiting for a custom tune from Unitronics to increase clamping force.

Also slipping, as in my case, was not obvious, the car felt quick, no idea it was slipping. It was only discovered when I went back to the dyno after doing some mods to increase power. To my surprise the figures were down, went back to dyno again and logged boost and it was apparent that torque and boost were not in sync.

I learned the hard way the torque limit and clamping force are not the same. With the slip, I went back to GIAC (I was running a GIAC DSG tune) and asked about raising torque limit and they declined. So I scrapped the GIAC tune and went with the Unitronics Stage 3 tune just prior to my send dyno trip. The figures were still down.

I called Uni and that is when I got schooled on torque limit vs increased clamping force. Uni tech staff were brilliant, they had me do some logging that would prove more clamping force would be beneficial. They agreed that it would. They also agreed to create a custom tune. They told me to be patient but that they would address the issue. To date I am still waiting for the tune, more info when I receive it.

Bottomline I bought the Uni based on increased torque limits thinking that would solve my DSG slippage issues only to learn later that increased clamping force is not part of what their DSG tunes do, nor did the GIAC tune at the time.
 

tsmack

Ready to race!
GIACUser, this is why I started the thread. I was finding the topic a bit confusing and misleading and want to make everyone more aware and learn for myself what we are getting for our money.
 
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