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Dynaudio + AfterMarket Sub Question

Mk6Mike

New member
thanks for the info! So moving forward with this system since I’ll be bypassing the amp/dsp and going from and AfterMarket headunit to an amp. Should I get a dsp just to save some crossover/power handling hassle and let a audio shop tune it?
actually. I know I’ve made a couple dsp posts so far. But I think this would be the best bang for the buck:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...nal-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--230-500

i really enjoy daytons stuff as I’ve had the chance to own a pair of their home speakers before
 

Mk6Mike

New member
actually. I know I’ve made a couple dsp posts so far. But I think this would be the best bang for the buck:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...nal-processor-for-home-and-car-audio--230-500

i really enjoy daytons stuff as I’ve had the chance to own a pair of their home speakers before
for whatever reason I couldn’t grasp the dsp concept before but last night I had an epiphany. Headunit wires run to amp, from the amp thesub would get powered. And then A/B speaker terminals would get sent to the dsp. From the 8 channel dsp each channel would specifically output to either L/R tweeters or L/R woofers.
I guess my only three questions before I buy everything is:
about doing the crossover for the tweeters but that may be a later thing once I get everything built.
With the Dayton DSP, could I power it off a 12V converter->home plug, such as the one nicely placed in the trunk.
And lastly should I be concerned about bridging the a/b channels. Or such send either of them to the dsp.

thanks to everyone who has been helping me so far amongst this journey!
 

Mk6Mike

New member
for whatever reason I couldn’t grasp the dsp concept before but last night I had an epiphany. Headunit wires run to amp, from the amp thesub would get powered. And then A/B speaker terminals would get sent to the dsp. From the 8 channel dsp each channel would specifically output to either L/R tweeters or L/R woofers.
I guess my only three questions before I buy everything is:
about doing the crossover for the tweeters but that may be a later thing once I get everything built.
With the Dayton DSP, could I power it off a 12V converter->home plug, such as the one nicely placed in the trunk.
And lastly should I be concerned about bridging the a/b channels. Or such send either of them to the dsp.

thanks to everyone who has been helping me so far amongst this journey!
maybe I’m just stupid lmao. I just watched a video by a channel called CarAudioFabrication. Which really gave me an in-depth look into dsps. They go before the amp. The only thing I’m trying to understand is without a passive crossover to the tweeters and woofer. How does the tweeter know to not play bass after being processed by the dsp and sent out through the amp. I’m considering adding a capacitor (or what ever it is) into the tweeter line since I don’t quite understand. But maybe it’s just because I’ve never dealt with a situation like this.

sorry for making so many replies and asking questions. I’m just the type of person to figure everything out before jumping into anything
 

Blakcard

Drag Race Newbie
when I had my Saab and replaced the factory spearkers the installer recommended capping my tweeters in the A pillar.

I kept the ones the removed and spliced the line to see if it did anything at all or pure hype. It took the low frequency right out. A bit too "bright" but it worked well. Had to turn down the treble a bit on some recordings.

OH.. AND if you ever do replace your factory speakers I full recommend Focal. Pricey.... but boy they are epic
 

Mk6Mike

New member
when I had my Saab and replaced the factory spearkers the installer recommended capping my tweeters in the A pillar.

I kept the ones the removed and spliced the line to see if it did anything at all or pure hype. It took the low frequency right out. A bit too "bright" but it worked well. Had to turn down the treble a bit on some recordings.

OH.. AND if you ever do replace your factory speakers I full recommend Focal. Pricey.... but boy they are epic
oh yeah. So I guess I will add a capacitor to then tweeters. I would go focal full swap (potentially) if I had the budget. A close friend of mine actually paid for a focal system to be put in his gti which is the same year as mine. Amp, Components. And while they do sound fantastic (probably because it’s also not stock). Already from the factory dynaudio system I can tell that there is much performance to be add with an aftermarket amp. The tweeters are more crisp and, dare I say beautiful in comparison to his. His had a nice warm sound which I’ve learned to appreciate with my current set of bookshelf speakers, my Fluance Ai40s. But the Dynaudio tweeters are just, magnificent. Their purity is. Agh. Maybe I’m just overthinking a lot of this and will probably do most of the wiring myself and bring it into a shop to tune and get configured. But I’m not replacing the dynaudio system unless after the upgrade the speakers blow.
 

Blakcard

Drag Race Newbie
No idea what the range of the speakers are but (at least the front ones) come alive with aftermarket HU and Amp.

In my two door the back speakers are shite imho. I usually have it balanced a tick more up front.
 

Mk6Mike

New member
No idea what the range of the speakers are but (at least the front ones) come alive with aftermarket HU and Amp.

In my two door the back speakers are shite imho. I usually have it balanced a tick more up front.
Oh yeah. As long as the back ones produce good sound then I’m fine with that, I have a four door and they’re for the rear passengers anyway. But I would cringe at the thought of having tweeters and woofers in those doors but without them making any sound. That why I was contemplating adding a capacitor so that I could still use all 4 channels with a 5 channel amp (ignoring the fact that I’ll have a sub in as the fifth channel). But as someone was saying before, this could create an issue with the impedance. And I’m wondering how I’d get around that.
 

gijoewoz

Go Kart Newbie
Ok, I think I'm caught up...

The Dayton DSP is a great piece, especially for the price, but the Pioneer you are ordering has network mode, so it can handle the crossovers for you so that you can run active. The head unit will allow you to filter out the bass from the tweeters before the signal even gets to the amp, so the amp won't have any bass on those channel to amplify. However, by using network mode, you will lose the rear speakers. If you want to run active, and keep the rear speakers you'll need a DSP like the Dayton. If you really want excellent sound, ditching the rears is the best solution anyway, but if you don't want to do that you'll need a DSP that has more outputs.

A cap is still a good idea for protection, especially if you're not super experienced. Send low frequencies to the tweeters and they'll fry.
 

Mk6Mike

New member
Ok, I think I'm caught up...

The Dayton DSP is a great piece, especially for the price, but the Pioneer you are ordering has network mode, so it can handle the crossovers for you so that you can run active. The head unit will allow you to filter out the bass from the tweeters before the signal even gets to the amp, so the amp won't have any bass on those channel to amplify. However, by using network mode, you will lose the rear speakers. If you want to run active, and keep the rear speakers you'll need a DSP like the Dayton. If you really want excellent sound, ditching the rears is the best solution anyway, but if you don't want to do that you'll need a DSP that has more outputs.

A cap is still a good idea for protection, especially if you're not super experienced. Send low frequencies to the tweeters and they'll fry.
Yeah sorry about making so many posts, I just went from one idea to the next. So from this point I would have two options I guess.

If I ran “network mode”. That would allow me to create a crossover from the headunit, but how would I know that it wouldn’t remove the lower frequencies from the sub (unless I forgot my amp imputs and I take the sub output from my headunit and plug into my amp). And by doing this, channel A would (if set for woofers) would power the front two drivers and Channel B (if set for tweeters) would power those. I like that idea since it’s cost effective and will work. Since I’m the only one driving the car this should probably be the path I go.

But if I wanted the rear, you say I would need something like the dayton. Which if I may ask. It has 4 inputs but 8 outputs? How exactly does this connect to the amp? Do the 8 outputs merg and inputed into the amp to then get dedicated from channel a to run all the woofers and channel b to run all the tweeters. This might create an impedence issue but I’m genuinely curious since I’ve never worked with a dsp before.

thanks for the input by the way!

edit: amp has dedicated sub input lmao
 

gijoewoz

Go Kart Newbie
Yeah sorry about making so many posts, I just went from one idea to the next. So from this point I would have two options I guess.

If I ran “network mode”. That would allow me to create a crossover from the headunit, but how would I know that it wouldn’t remove the lower frequencies from the sub (unless I forgot my amp imputs and I take the sub output from my headunit and plug into my amp). And by doing this, channel A would (if set for woofers) would power the front two drivers and Channel B (if set for tweeters) would power those. I like that idea since it’s cost effective and will work. Since I’m the only one driving the car this should probably be the path I go.

But if I wanted the rear, you say I would need something like the dayton. Which if I may ask. It has 4 inputs but 8 outputs? How exactly does this connect to the amp? Do the 8 outputs merg and inputed into the amp to then get dedicated from channel a to run all the woofers and channel b to run all the tweeters. This might create an impedence issue but I’m genuinely curious since I’ve never worked with a dsp before.

thanks for the input by the way!

edit: amp has dedicated sub input lmao
This screeenshot is from a Kenwood, but the Pioneer is very similar. You choose the crossover frequency and slope for the tweeters, then you choose the crossover frequency and slope for the mids, and the same for the sub.

In this picture you can see that I have the high pass for the tweeters set to 2.5khz and -12dB slope, so frequencies below 2.5khz are filtered out, and do not make it to the amp, therefore they don't make it from the amp to the tweeters. The mids have a bandpass, which is both a high pass and a low pass. My bandpass is set to 80hz to pair down low with the sub, and 2.5khz to pair with the tweeters. Is that making more sense?

The Dayton would take up to 4 fullrange inputs, or 2 fullrange inputs and 1 or 2 sub inputs. You then use the software to assign which frequencies you want to go to each output. Those outputs are then wired to the amp, then the speakers. So you could send a pair of fullrange stereo RCAs from the head unit into inputs 1 and 2, then you can send the sub input into input 3. You would then assign (for example) outputs 1 and 2 to your tweeters, 3 and 4 to your mids, 5 and 6 to rear speakers, and 7 to the sub. You would set all of the crossovers in the DSP so that the frequencies you want for each speaker are sent out the output into the amp.

I hope I'm explaining this well, if you have any questions let me know. I'm still working, and have some errands to run, but I'll be checking back in throughout the day. If you want, send me a PM, and I'll give you my phone number and I can help you via text.
 

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Mk6Mike

New member
This screeenshot is from a Kenwood, but the Pioneer is very similar. You choose the crossover frequency and slope for the tweeters, then you choose the crossover frequency and slope for the mids, and the same for the sub.

In this picture you can see that I have the high pass for the tweeters set to 2.5khz and -12dB slope, so frequencies below 2.5khz are filtered out, and do not make it to the amp, therefore they don't make it from the amp to the tweeters. The mids have a bandpass, which is both a high pass and a low pass. My bandpass is set to 80hz to pair down low with the sub, and 2.5khz to pair with the tweeters. Is that making more sense?

The Dayton would take up to 4 fullrange inputs, or 2 fullrange inputs and 1 or 2 sub inputs. You then use the software to assign which frequencies you want to go to each output. Those outputs are then wired to the amp, then the speakers. So you could send a pair of fullrange stereo RCAs from the head unit into inputs 1 and 2, then you can send the sub input into input 3. You would then assign (for example) outputs 1 and 2 to your tweeters, 3 and 4 to your mids, 5 and 6 to rear speakers, and 7 to the sub. You would set all of the crossovers in the DSP so that the frequencies you want for each speaker are sent out the output into the amp.

I hope I'm explaining this well, if you have any questions let me know. I'm still working, and have some errands to run, but I'll be checking back in throughout the day. If you want, send me a PM, and I'll give you my phone number and I can help you via text.
you’re explaining this so excellently that I’m actually going to say (not to be so aggressive about this) “F” going to a shop. I can do this on my own with a little time and patience.

of course don’t go out of your way to respond, only do so when you can! I don’t want to pressure a response as because of this whole pandemic bs I’ll have more than enough time to keep chatting before stuff would even start arriving.

but seriously to you and everyone else this helps sooo much. And instantly made so much more sense. I’m (was) in the process of changing providers so I don’t have an active number as we speak but I’ll send you a pm about any questions.

but yeah it’s just a matter of setting the “front” inputs on the head-unit to have a bands pass for the woofers which would then be connected to channel A on the amp and then connect the L/R channel to the front door woofers

Set a highpass filter for the “rear” inputs on the headunit, plus it into the channel B slot on the amp and connect the L/R channel to the appropriate front tweeters.

and then rinse and repeat for the sub.

and at 75 watts rms per channel x4 @4ohms on the amp it wont blow my speakers unless I REALLY REALLY crank it up, right? With the stock unit I listen at around 75% usually adjusting the sound higher or lower based on if people are in the car or if there’s a good song playing.

now my only issue is trying to remove the bass remote from my previous vehicle for the amp:LOL:(unless you can get any bass remote which would be helpful if anyone can point me to any)

and once again. Thank you to everyone!!!!!!!!!!! In the future I’ll maybe add a dsp, but for right now I’ll go with the front setup just so
 

gijoewoz

Go Kart Newbie
Here's a quick sketch I did while on a Zoom meeting with work. With the Pioneer head units, the rear RCA outputs from the head unit control the tweeters, and the front outputs control the midwoofers.
 

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Mk6Mike

New member
Here's a quick sketch I did while on a Zoom meeting with work. With the Pioneer head units, the rear RCA outputs from the head unit control the tweeters, and the front outputs control the midwoofers.
aww man you didn’t have to do that while working. But I can’t thank you enough as I was just about to ask what crossovers I should set.

but another question is where should I “tap” into the speaker cables to bring it to the amp. Probably from the original(Stock system) amp/dsp.Or should I just run new cables to the speakers
 

gijoewoz

Go Kart Newbie
aww man you didn’t have to do that while working. But I can’t thank you enough as I was just about to ask what crossovers I should set.

but another question is where should I “tap” into the speaker cables to bring it to the amp. Probably from the original(Stock system) amp/dsp.Or should I just run new cables to the speakers
I was sitting in on a meeting that I didn't need to participate in, so I just drew it up while I listened.

A high pass filter of 80hz is pretty standard for a 6.5" speaker. Some can play a bit lower, down to around 60hz, but that is really pushing it even for really nice 6.5" midbass speakers, and I agree with your original plan to relieve the front speakers of some of the bass. You can realistically play a subwoofer up to about 120hz without having it sound like it's coming from behind you, so a low pass filter for the sub and a high pass filter for the front mids of 80-100hz is usually the sweet spot.

The tweeter high pass filter is a bit trickier sometimes. Playing a tweeter too low can ruin it really quickly. Luckily, the pioneer you ordered has some good options for HPF on the tweeter channels. You can use 2khz, 2.5khz, 3.15khz, 4khz, 5khz, and even higher. A high pass filter of 2k, or 2.5khz would be for really high end tweeters, I wouldn't push those OEM dyns that low at all, if it were me I'd start at 5khz, mute all other speakers, and listen. At moderate volume I'd then bump down to 4khz and listen. You should be able to hear the distortion pretty well, and you'll know that you're playing them too low. Using 24dB slopes all around I would suspect that 3.15khz, or 4khz would work, but I'd need to mess with a set of the actual tweeters to be able to say that with confidence. Having never used them I'm just taking a reasonable guess.

The easiest place to tap into the speaker wires would be at the OEM amp harness. You can use a battery to verify that you have the correct speaker wires, then run some speaker wire from that harness to the outputs of the new amp. I highly recommend using these:
https://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html

Where is the OEM amp, and where are you putting the new amp? Are you pulling the OEM amp out completely?
 

Mk6Mike

New member
I was sitting in on a meeting that I didn't need to participate in, so I just drew it up while I listened.

A high pass filter of 80hz is pretty standard for a 6.5" speaker. Some can play a bit lower, down to around 60hz, but that is really pushing it even for really nice 6.5" midbass speakers, and I agree with your original plan to relieve the front speakers of some of the bass. You can realistically play a subwoofer up to about 120hz without having it sound like it's coming from behind you, so a low pass filter for the sub and a high pass filter for the front mids of 80-100hz is usually the sweet spot.

The tweeter high pass filter is a bit trickier sometimes. Playing a tweeter too low can ruin it really quickly. Luckily, the pioneer you ordered has some good options for HPF on the tweeter channels. You can use 2khz, 2.5khz, 3.15khz, 4khz, 5khz, and even higher. A high pass filter of 2k, or 2.5khz would be for really high end tweeters, I wouldn't push those OEM dyns that low at all, if it were me I'd start at 5khz, mute all other speakers, and listen. At moderate volume I'd then bump down to 4khz and listen. You should be able to hear the distortion pretty well, and you'll know that you're playing them too low. Using 24dB slopes all around I would suspect that 3.15khz, or 4khz would work, but I'd need to mess with a set of the actual tweeters to be able to say that with confidence. Having never used them I'm just taking a reasonable guess.

The easiest place to tap into the speaker wires would be at the OEM amp harness. You can use a battery to verify that you have the correct speaker wires, then run some speaker wire from that harness to the outputs of the new amp. I highly recommend using these:
https://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html

Where is the OEM amp, and where are you putting the new amp? Are you pulling the OEM amp out completely?
From what I understand the oem amp is underneath the drivers seat. Could be wrong and I’ll be looking more into this. The new amp I would ideally like to keep it out of the way as much as possible. Maybe installing it behind my sub. Which to be quite frank I’ve yet to figure out how to mount it in my trunk but it’s probably another case of me overthinking it.

but so far I’ve gone ahead and ordered the parts. The headunits+harnesses&dash kit through crutchfield and some more 4awg OFC amp wiring, along side 2 17 foot insulated rca cables through amazon (thanks prime shipping lol). I’ve got a good understanding of how I’m going to get this done. It’s the little details that I would need help with

like running new speaker cable. Show I consider an investment like speedwire to assist in the wiring process of the speakers. Should I run new speaker wire? I’m tempted to set everything Up and have a shop do all the wiring connections and then I could mess with the crossover setting in the headunit after.
Speaking of Crossover. I’m sure if I crossover at 5khz abd leave it there it’ll be fine. Plus with the amount of extra juices the speakers are getting they’ll pretty much be roided’ up.
 
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