First time pulled over...some questions.

[outshined]

Seems we have different definitions of fair.

Some people having to pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars more than others for the exact same speeding offenses is not fair by my understanding of the word. If you think it is, then I guess that's the end of the thread.

I understand that treating people differently while not subjecting them to anything worse than the maximum penalty is legal - however that does not make it fair. That subjectivity opens the door to all sorts of discrimination and is better left to a court room.

Discretion does not equal prejudice.

 

[hooligan74]

Troy, you've said some stupid shit in this forum, but this thread takes the cake.

Every officer, including the ones that pulled you over, COULD HAVE written it for less. They didn't, others did. There is no discrimination/prejudice unless you can show a pattern. Bad luck is not a pattern.

For fuck's sake, dude.

 

[troyguitar]

Troy, you've said some stupid shit in this forum, but this thread takes the cake.

Every officer, including the ones that pulled you over, COULD HAVE written it for less. They didn't, others did. There is no discrimination/prejudice unless you can show a pattern. Bad luck is not a pattern.

For fuck's sake, dude.

I never said there was a pattern. In fact I said that it was bad luck.

Why is luck involved at all though? We are not talking about complicated crimes here. Speeding is entirely black and white. What possible reason could there be to give different punishments for the same speeding offense?

Luck should not matter. The mood of the officer or the appearance of the offender or the financial status of the state should all be irrelevant.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[outshined]

Discretion does not equal prejudice. If you have actual evidence of prejudice, then you can make a case.

 

[nakenyon]

You don't know the first thing about me or what kind of a cop i am. I know you're over 16 years old and can not be as diluted as you come off. Read what I wrote. I would much rather stop someone who was speeding, and let them off with a warning, and go out and take someone off the street that's a real danger to our people. There are 25,000 active felony warrants in Maricopa county alone. I don't have time to be a traffic bitch and write everyone I stop, even if I wanted to. If I cared about traffic I would go be a motor, plain and simple. Lastly, you dont think I'm doing a good enough of a job? Why don't you come put on the badge? I just lost a brother on Monday, you're more then welcome to join up and try take his spot and show the rest of us how to do our jobs, you fucking ballsless complain about everything hipster prick. Or you can slow the fuck down and not get tickets in the first place.

Ok, let me try and explain it to you. If I pulled over everyone, for every violation that I saw, or wrote every single ticket, on every traffic stop I conducted, nothing else would get done. A shooting comes out? Sorry victims, this guy made a wide left, gotta write it. A roll over accident? Sorry guys, this guy didn't use a turn signal in a through lane. It's not realistic. We have to prioritize. Not to mention we have Traffic Bureaus that are staffed with motor cops that write every ticket every time. I like to think I balance them out a bit. As much as you pissed me off, I don't think you're a bad guy, in any sense of the word. If I was to stop you for ANY traffic violation, as long as you weren't driving drunk, or you didn't cause an accident, I wouldn't write you a ticket. Even with your shit attitude. It's just how I do my job. I believe more in educating people (not lecturing), rather then hitting them with fines. Especially in this shit economy. There are more important things for me to be doing then wasting my time with the average citizen who's going over the speed limit, or not using his blinker, or rolling through a stop sign. Do I make the stop? I do when I have time. You never know what a traffic stop brings. If I walk up to the car and you're just a guy going about his business, who cares. You're not a threat to me, my family, or society, so why have the government take your money if it's not necessary? I would rather let someone keep the $200-5000 in their pocket then let it go into the general fund where the politicians will piss it away. Like I said, big difference between letter of the law and spirit of the law. I do things that benefit the people I serve, not the agency that employs me, or some moral high ground you pretend to live on. You talk about the 14th amendment and equal treatment, and you clearly have no clue. You didn't get treated unfairly. You committed a crime, you were punished accordingly. If you went to court for your speeding ticket and they decided to lock you up for 2 years, I can see where you can make an argument. Until then, like I said, you don't like paying fines, don't do the crime. Me, well I'm gonna keep enjoying the discretion I am afforded by law, and my agency's policy, to make our steadily declining society as good of a place for my family, my friends, and myself.

You sir, are one of my new favorite people. Sorry to hear about your loss.

Taking the high ground, I like it. :clap:

Edit.
I'll put my story in here because I think it's relevant and funny in retrospect, if you want to talk about fairness with cops.
I'll make it as short as possible.

TLDR at the bottom.
I got a ticket for speeding. Made payment arrangements, all is well (important later).
My trip to work is mostly freeway, I get off in an industrial district, I literally take the exit and then take one right, then drive that road for 2 miles, and my work is there on the left. This road is busy and always packed with cars (single lane each way).
For a week to a week and a half, I noticed a cop on the side of the road nearly every day. I wasn't speeding, couldn't due to traffic anyways, but didn't think anything of him.
One day, on my way back from lunch, I see him on the side of the road again, this time the road is clear around me, he pulls out behind me lights and siren, the works. I pull into the parking lot, another cop comes tearing up behind him....weird...I wasn't doing anything.
He comes up to my window, "Are you Syonxwf?"...uh...shit...why is he calling me by my name before seeing my license. I tell him yes, he asks for my license, registration, etc. He asked me if I was aware he was trying to pull me over for the past week...??? Wtf...no?
He told me that I was alluding (eluding?) him the past week, and that he dedicated his entire week that week to finding and arresting me.
At this point I was pissed, which I rarely get with cops, and told him that if he was trying to pull me over for the last week that he's got to be retarded because I take the same (and only) path in and out of this industrial park EVERY DAY to and from work, at the same times, EVERY DAY, and that he was obviously doing something wrong.
He then tells me to please step out of the car, and that I am under arrest for driving with a suspended license (I don't think my rant made a difference). He told me he'd be "nice" today and wouldn't impound my car if I knew someone that would get my car. I had to call my boss...he obliged and asked me if I would be returning to work that day, and then laughed at me...fucker lol.
I get taken in, bailed out by my mom (who was babysitting my son), and promptly called to find out how to get my license unsuspended. Court clerk, "your license shouldn't be suspended...let me check this out. Oh, looks like the court clerk forgot to enter you were making payments...oops!" Yeah fuck you oops, I just went to jail whore.
Still had to go to court, told the judge what happened, he laughed and dismissed he case. No apology from anyone, they didn't give a fuck.
Even after that, I still don't hold a grudge against cops, only the assholes.

My sister got pulled over recently, no insurance, speeding, and suspended license (actually, funny story, hers shouldnt be suspended either...fuck the clerks up here). Cop wrote the ticket for no insurance after she told him the story of why her license was suspended, and told her it was a warning for the speeding and that "No one could make up a story like that" in response to her suspended license. Told her to get insurance that day and take it to the court, and they'll reduce the fine. She did, and got it reduced from $550 to $25.
So I wasn't treated the same, sucked, but I'm over it. Shit happens.

TL;DR - Cop dedicated entire day to arresting me for my license being suspended, when it wasn't actually suspended.

+1 on the cop being a little over zealous. Hunting you for a week because your license was suspended. That's a bit much, but props to you for not letting your experience with him sour you in the entire system.

It is fair because as long as the punishment is not greater then what is afforded by law, it's justifiable both by law and policy. The justice system is not perfect. It's not fair that two people convicted of the same offense get two different terms, as much as 7 years apart. I've seen this happen first hand.



As for the officer writing something else on the citation? It is not perjury unless she testifies in court and she lies about it then. I've stopped people for 85 in a 55 before. On the citation I will write 85/55, but I might cite them with a 28-701A, which is a civil charge, instead of 28-701.02.2, which is a criminal charge. If they are doing 70 in a 55, and for whatever reason an officer writes 65 on the citation, in the officer's notes, which are completed with every citation, they always put the true speed, how it was obtained, traffic and weather conditions, comments made by the defendant, etc. When the officer goes to court to testify for the citation, he/she will say "On this date and this time, I was located in this place, and I observed the defendant, driving the listed vehicle, traveling in X direction at a speed of 70 miles per hour". The judge knows the officer cited a lower speed, and it really only applies to the actual fine. The charge stays the same unless it's 20+ over the limit, and then it becomes criminal. Even in that case, you can write someone for 100 in a 55, and still charge them with a civil charge. The law affords for the officer to cite a lower charge or charge a lower crime in cases where the victim is the State or the Municipality. If the victim is a person, for example, someone shoots you, the officer can't be like "Nah, it's not attempted murder, I'll charge this guy with simple assault". I hope that clears some things up. My advice, go do a ride along. It will open your eyes a bit as to why we do the things we do.

Very well put.

Troy, you've said some stupid shit in this forum, but this thread takes the cake.

Every officer, including the ones that pulled you over, COULD HAVE written it for less. They didn't, others did. There is no discrimination/prejudice unless you can show a pattern. Bad luck is not a pattern.

For fuck's sake, dude.

Agreed.

I never said there was a pattern. In fact I said that it was bad luck.

Why is luck involved at all though? We are not talking about complicated crimes here. Speeding is entirely black and white. What possible reason could there be to give different punishments for the same speeding offense?

Luck should not matter. The mood of the officer or the appearance of the offender or the financial status of the state should all be irrelevant.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Nothing that has been said in this thread has affected your position. Props to you for being firm in your beliefs of how the system should work. Write you congressman and senators.

 

[KOA789]

Luck should not matter. The mood of the officer or the appearance of the offender or the financial status of the state should all be irrelevant.

Those things are irrelevant. The attitude of someone I stop is also irrelevant. If they are just an asshole to be an asshole, oh well. But if they are high and driving, or drunk and driving, or a prohibited possessor and driving, or they throw up gang signs at me and claim a set and driving...well...that pretty much determines their faith in my eyes, and a ticket at that point is the least of their concerns.

Also, don't ruin this for everyone else by writing to your congressmen and senators. Come to AZ, you can fly by me doing 100+ in a 65, I'll pull you over and explain to you why we can't be doing it. That way you know the amazing feeling of being let off with a warning and you can be a part of the club

 

[dwgolf]

Wow...

Anyways, I had a ticket for going 10 over the limit. I contested it and it was thrown out because it was my first ticket. Not saying that will happen to you, but see if you can at least get it lowered.

It was stated earlier, strike a deal.

 

[nuggstein]

Those things are irrelevant. The attitude of someone I stop is also irrelevant. If they are just an asshole to be an asshole, oh well. But if they are high and driving, or drunk and driving, or a prohibited possessor and driving, or they throw up gang signs at me and claim a set and driving...well...that pretty much determines their faith in my eyes, and a ticket at that point is the least of their concerns.

Also, don't ruin this for everyone else by writing to your congressmen and senators. Come to AZ, you can fly by me doing 100+ in a 65, I'll pull you over and explain to you why we can't be doing it. That way you know the amazing feeling of being let off with a warning and you can be a part of the club

On my way! Never got a warning before!!

 

[troyguitar]

Those things are irrelevant. The attitude of someone I stop is also irrelevant.

...so what explains me getting no breaks or warnings then? If it isn't my attitude and it isn't the cop and it isn't the state, what is it? Aliens?

 

[outshined]

Your attitude is relevant.

 

[Do Work Son]

I don't do the whole "hands on the wheel, yessir, nosir" thing. I just ask him if I can spit afterwards and so far I've only gotten two tickets.

 

[Dubvee]

I don't do the whole "hands on the wheel, yessir, nosir" thing. I just ask him if I can spit afterwards and so far I've only gotten two tickets.

In the town of ranson, WV, about 6 years ago, some very smart female didn't spit until she got to the hospital. Way to go local police force. Dude got fired, but otherwise the story wasn't picked up by local newspapers.

 

[SixSpeeder]

I don't do the whole "hands on the wheel, yessir, nosir" thing. I just ask him if I can spit afterwards and so far I've only gotten two tickets.

I started eating my egg mcmuffin last time before it got cold, he looked a bit testy but didn't say anything. It wasn't even a real speeding ticket, he didn't have his radar or laser on, and was just trying to get me to admit that I was speeding. He ended up writing me some BS warning for speeding ticket, what a waste of both of our time.

The last real ticket I got was for going 66 in a 60 zone, my cruise was set at 65. Ridiculous, this was on the interstate on the way down to Portland in Cowfuck-no-mans-land also, there was no traffic around at all.

 

[KOA789]

...so what explains me getting no breaks or warnings then? If it isn't my attitude and it isn't the cop and it isn't the state, what is it? Aliens?

Could be that you're either being stopped by 1. Motors or 2. Highway Patrol. That's what 95% of their job is, is writing tickets. They rarely give brakes too, even to cops. Ask me how I know.

In the town of ranson, WV, about 6 years ago, some very smart female didn't spit until she got to the hospital. Way to go local police force. Dude got fired, but otherwise the story wasn't picked up by local newspapers.

That's appalling. That guy needs to be prosecuted. We had one of the guys on my department stop a drunk, fuck her, and then let her drive drunk home. She went home and told her roommate who's boyfriend was a Lieutenant. Eventually they figured out who it was, confronted him, and he got shit canned. I don't get dudes like that. Get laid on your own time, and if you can't, go to Reno and get a hooker.

I started eating my egg mcmuffin last time before it got cold, he looked a bit testy but didn't say anything. It wasn't even a real speeding ticket, he didn't have his radar or laser on, and was just trying to get me to admit that I was speeding. He ended up writing me some BS warning for speeding ticket, what a waste of both of our time.

The last real ticket I got was for going 66 in a 60 zone, my cruise was set at 65. Ridiculous, this was on the interstate on the way down to Portland in Cowfuck-no-mans-land also, there was no traffic around at all.

He doesn't need you to admit to how fast you were going to write you, he just felt like writing you a warning. Also, 66 in a 60 is a stupid ass fucking ticket. I got stopped on my bike doing 67 in a 65, and got a ticket for no license plate light and having my high beams on. He also lectured me about wearing ear plugs while riding. I informed him of hearing damage from wind noise. Dude was a dick, and I fought the tickets. Beat both of them fair and square. Some cops are douche bags and go on a power trip and have an ego that you can't make happy no matter what. I've come across a few in my time.

 

[hooligan74]

...so what explains me getting no breaks or warnings then? If it isn't my attitude and it isn't the cop and it isn't the state, what is it? Aliens?

Who/what says you require/deserve and explanation?

FWIW, traffic laws aren't the only times cops/DAs use discretion and don't punish/prosecute/fine/whatever to the exact letter of the law.

Let it go.